The list of guys that I thought were going to be huge players is extensive. A few spilled over into my card collecting life. Jose Osuna, Tabata, Andrew Lambo, Gage Hinsz, and the biggest one, Tony Sanchez.
Well Arizona and Baltimore will get an extra first round pick in next years draft. I'm a little surprised that 3 out of the 4 RotY awards have resulted in extra picks under the new CBA.
Don't the players also gain an extra year of service as well. I am just guessing, but wouldn't this be bad for a cheap team that isn't going to re-sign the player? Then also be good for a team that spends money that is going to re-sign that player beyond 5 years? Just asking.
Nope, the team doesn't get a 7th. Teams hold the players back for 3 or 4 weeks to gain an extra year for not getting a full year. Pittsburgh usually waits till June to avoid super 2 to avoid paying an extra year of arbitration.
The player does get a full year if they finish in the top 2 or 3 (not sure). So it rewards a player that comes up later, rather than starting the season at the major league level if they win ROY or even runner up. The Cleveland pitcher Bibee for example gets a full year of service even though he came up later.
So do the Guardians get an extra pick because of Bibee finishing second in voting? And don't the Guardians also get one less year of service with him because he finished second in voting?
If so the Guardians probably view that as a good thing and a bad thing. Unless I have it all wrong.
They don't get an extra pick. He wasn't on the 26 man roster on opening day. Bibee also gets a full year of service so Cleveland doesn't get a 7th year.
Cleveland kinda gets the worst of both sides, no draft pick compensation and they don't get the 7th year of control.
This seems relevant to how the Pirates might handle Skenes. I doubt he is ready by Opening Day, if for no other reason than managing scaling up his workload (shorter time between starts, more innings expected over the course of the season). But it would be a little frustrating to hold him down to gain an extra year only to see him have a Bibee-like season.
I wouldn't complain if he's so good to finish top 2 in ROY, but I would be a little annoyed that we missed out on an extra pick. Of course odds are against him finishing top 2 even if he comes up in April, and he may not even be ready soon enough to have a real shot at ROY.
I'm thinking teams like the pirates should take a page from Baltimore, Arizona ect... bring their prized prospects up in September to get a taste of the majors. Then have them on the opening day roster. It paid off with Carroll and Henderson, the Rangers look like they have a front runner with Carter.
Again I'm not saying this for every prospect in the top 100 but prized prospects, top 25 in the national rankings.
If they feel Skenes is ready I'd rather start him in the majors than hold him back until April or June. If he's not ready at the start I'd be tempted to hold off until late August or September and give him a chance for ROY the next season.
The 2nd and 3rd teams were supposed to receive international picks if an international draft would have come to fruition. I'm not sure if they receive a larger international pool amount.
A question related to the Oviedo possible TJ. Has there ever been clear explanation / outlook on Vince Velasquez (I easily could have missed it). I had low expectations when they signed him - was picturing Cahill 2021 results. However, in his short season he was quite good. He is a free agent so Pirates don't necessarily have any inside track if he is fully healthy, but he was briefly intriguing.
Far from crazy, upgrading 2B is exactly the kind of move we'd *want* them to be seeking in whatever godforsaken phase of rebuild they're moving into.
The 2023 club ranked 23rd in Pitcher WAR and 23rd in Hitter WAR. While no single metric can judge such a thing, at the end of the day ya still gotta beat your competition and so a comparative evaluation of where their needs fall seems reasonable.
If we've somehow talked ourselves into the 23rd best group of hitters only having like 1-2 positions that can be upgraded then I'm afraid we're firmly entrenched with mediocracy as the target. Of course they should look to add 2B to the list of upgrades.
2 positions where I think they have to assume the in-house candidates will improve the full year hitting is SS and Catcher(card board dummy would improve it). Cruz missing basically a full year worries me a lot as he was far from a MLB polished hitter.. just revisited his BB/K ratio - ouch. He did improve a lot as the 2022 went by, but that was a long time ago. But if he just does Jack - hits homeruns and strikes out, that should improve the SS offense. I am also hoping Reynolds has a better year. I still prioritize 1B over 2B (not that they can't consider both) for 2024. I know they weren't really trying ( I fully believe that was the plan) during the Chavis / Van Meter 2B experiment days but I also am hesitant on who they can really get for 2B that is a REAL upgrade and not just somebody preventing us from finding out if Peggy or Nick are just as good with some MLB at bats under their belts.
I'm banking on something like 5 WAR from internal candidates spread across the exact three you listed (Cruz, Reynolds, Endy).
They've got work to do at 1B but not much relative to the other potions of need. 10th in the league last year at 2.2 WAR and should be returning Connor Joe.
Conversely, they were 29th and well below replacement level at 2B.
It may be tricky to acquire anyone better than a hypothetical peak version of the internal guys they have, but almost by definition it could not be easier to improve on how those players have actually performed.
I probably should just hit delete at this point, as even beginning to type it out is TMI and a visual that no reader wishes to see. So anyone reading this, this is the disclaimer portion where you read at your own discretion.
I was going to jokingly say, "I decided to go with the BoD ass tat". You know, BoD on right bum cheek or something. Then my brain stopped, went, "Oh, no", and then started cackling to myself. "B" on the left cheek. "D" on the right cheek.
I see the Pirates having plenty of piggy back starters. It actually worked well for them in September, but then again they benefited some from the expanded roster.
Hindsight is 20-20 but, as Mackey points out, why allow a young pitcher to have such a large increase in IP this season (more than a 50% increase from 117.1 in '22 with some of those coming in the lower-stress minors to 177.2 this season)?
In particular, I have no complaint about 112 pitches to complete the shutout on August 28, but then allowing him to throw 97 pitches in only 3.2 innings the next time out, followed by 92 in another 3.2 inning outing, and then 96 in only 5 innings the next time out? In general, 90+ pitches spread out over 6+ innings doesn't worry me but when a pitcher is throwing that many in 5 or fewer innings, I worry. And even more so with the pitch clock.
If you're going to do that with a young pitcher, you better know that he's able to handle it. Obviously, Oviedo wasn't. I feel like they ignored the numbers due to his frame, and sacrificed actual victories in the future for moral victories in September.
I think they probably would have scaled Oviedo back if they didn’t have so many injuries at the higher levels to begin with. There were so few left and he was healthy and the stuff looked good. Arms get hurt, it’s the way of the world. I’m not gonna fault them too much.
I would bet the biggest reason for all of the arm injuries in today's game is because of the max effort velocity pitcher's throw. A 100 mph fastball might put the equivalent strain on a pitcher's arm as three less stressful pitches.
I also agree with you that I loved the 112 pitch shut out by Oviedo, but I think that should have earned him an extra day's rest in the rotation.
I always wonder if it is the increase in pitches or the number of lifetime pitches. I always picture the ligaments as a rubber band (fan belt in a car that is good for xx Miles). Was Oviedo going to need TJ after 177 innings (assuming pitch count stays the same) whether he did 177 this year or 120 this year and then 57 into next year and then would need TJ? I do tend to go more in the former.. don't ramp up to significantly from year to year, but Ialways like this debate.
It’s neither. The primary reason for so many arm injuries most likely is not related to number of pitches thrown in a year or lifetime nearly as much as it is to pitchers trying to throw the ball as hard as possible usually from an early age. The severity of the force (in physics force equals mass times acceleration) repeatedly put on the arm to achieve the 95-100 mph velocity is the problem not the number of pitches.
In my opinion, this is the biggest problem in baseball right now. Obviously from a health standpoint, but also from a casual fan standpoint. It was often the starting pitcher that brought the casual fans to the game, knowing that guy would throw 7 to 9 innings. Instead we might see 10 or so pitchers in a game. It's not an easy problem to fix.
I've never worried as much about IP increases from one year to the next as I have about pitch counts in a condensed time frame. Lots of pitches in a few innings, multiple outings in a month with high pitch counts, etc. I've wondered if the rule of thumb on IP increases is really a proxy for allowing the body to adjust to reductions in recovery time. I.e., it's not the innings but what inning increases imply about reducing recovery time.
Within a game, I think the inning breaks are so important in giving a pitcher time to recover and have never understood why allowing a pitcher to throw 90ish pitches in 3-4 innings is more acceptable than allowing a pitcher to exceed 100 pitches in 8+ innings. My analogy is that it's harder for me to do 90 pushups in sets of 30 than in sets of 15, and I'm more sore the next day when I've done sets of 30.
I'll buy that. I still cling slightly to my theory that there are x amount of pitches in an arm before TJ (of course so dependent on each person), but I fully agree that a 90 pitch complete game (hello Greg Maddux) is much less harmful to an arm that 2 marathon innings with stress.
If not him, feels like this guarantees that they rely on priester, ortiz, etc for regular starts which is terrifying for a team that should be expecting to surpass .500
Me too. Really thought one mid rotation or better starter with a couple bounce back pitchers. At first thought maybe just go with bounce back guys via free agency. Trade for potential 1st basemen and a near ready arm that's on some other teams 40 that has an option or 2.
With the lack of a solid rotation this looks like another youth moment year a coming.
If Oviedo does need TJ and you are planning on 'attempting' to compete this year, Not sure they can go heavy on the bounce back guys now. Which is going to make it tough (expensive) to do so.
I don't see them being able to compete if he needs surgery. It would require at least 2 mid rotation pitchers and a bounce back pitcher or 2, before they even consider a 1st basemen or a defensive CF via free agency. An upgrade at 2nd becomes an afterthought.
Trades and short free agency signings are what I'm expecting now. Hope I'm wrong.
It really does, they're at least a year away from hopefully having a stable of home grown depth for the rotation. Even if they sign 3 or 4 starters, an injury or underperformance from anyone they would bring in, would most likely leave hole(s). Hopefully a couple of the young guys can step up instead of regressing.
Yea the amount needs is already kinda stretching it, adding the fact they need some of the kids to step up. NOW add in replacing Oviedo. Tall mountain to climb
As far as prospects who I was all in on who went bust...
There's so many, but the 2 that stand out to me that I loved when they were drafted...Kevin Newman & Travis Swaggerty.
Newman had that *hit tool*, could run and handle SS...I thought they had a perennial 3-win player for the next half decade. Watching Arizona in the playoffs and watching Corbin Carroll is who I envisioned Swaggerty.
To go all nerd on you. Of the 20 players selected at #19 (Newman) prior to Newman's year, 10 have less WAR and 10 have higher WAR than Newman. The best was Alex Rios and Michael Wacha was second, both good players. Not a reflection on your post as much as a reflection that a first round pick just means so much less in baseball in terms of the odds of success. Of the five taken after Newman(maybe also under consideration), 3 have negative WAR and 1 never made the Majors. The Homer Simpson DOH goes to the person taken 5 spots after - Walker Buehler - yes.. I'd take him!
I'm with you on adding a 2bmen. I don't think Gonzales is the answer. Bae is utility at best and Peguero needs more time in AAA. Triolo is probably the best of the bunch but has some major regression in his profile.
There's not a lot of options in free agency, unless you want an Adam Frazier reunion or a guy like Witt Merrifield. I don't think I would take a chance on a guy like Tim Anderson or Amed Rosario.
If I'm Ben, I'm looking at trades for dudes like Jorge Polanco, or Gavin Biggio, maybe Cronenworth, Brendan Rodgers could use a change of scenery...Jonathan India is out there as well, but I doubt Cincy trades him to PGH. Bottom line, there is players out there available, but knowing the Pirates, they'll sign Isiah Kiner-Falefa.
Even though im not sold on anyone on the roster, i would rather any of them than IKF which scarily sounds exactly like the kind of guy we would go for. Bmac's sources could poke around on a biggio and manoah trade package
ZVR was an interesting player in that he had the frame to add velocity and he actually did for what amounted to a half of a season, then just lost it. He was shocking seeing him in person for the first time (prior to adding velocity), because he just had nothing. I was at a game in which he allowed one run over six innings and it was absolutely the luckiest game I've ever seen. People were getting all over my live report because they couldn't believe one run on four hits and a walk over six innings was a bad game. The opposing team was hammering line drives right at fielders the entire game. There were even 8-10 foul balls that were crowd-seeking missiles.
He added a good 4-5 MPH at one point, when added to his excellent control, made him a better looking prospect, but that went away quickly somehow. He was throwing mid-80s as a reliever by the time he was done.
I was only "all-in" on him until I saw him. Similar to Colton Cain. He pitched three games I saw in which he sat 86-88 MPH and his only effective pitch was a high fastball that he needed batters to chase. I saw absolutely nothing interesting about him other than size/age/lefty.
If I had to pick one player who I was sure would make the majors and didn't (not injury related), it was Jason Delaney. He must have known when I was there because all he did was drive the ball well. Great line drive swing. He even had some upper level success, then just crashed and burned after leaving the Pirates. They weren't comparable players (due mostly to a big age gap and athleticism/speed), but I saw him as much as I saw McCutchen in the minors, and Delaney was the better hitter every time.
Man, when I think of prospects that went bust, I think of high draft picks and big-time prospects. Personally, I think Kuhl exceeded all expectations. 9th rd. pick out of Delaware that they were able to get extra juice on his heater. But I'm with you when he made his debut vs Kershaw and WON! He was full of energy and had that good fastball. Year 2 he was over 2 wins, year 3 he had TJS and was never the same...lost command and velo and was never the same. I remember over at the old site and the arguments of whether he was a 3rd or 4th starter after his 2nd year. Fun times!
We had a lot of fun with the array of arms they had back then. Then majority of them went bust lol
I guess with regards to expectations vs. where they were selected it would be a win. Moreso now than previously, I don't know if we can put much emphasis of expectations on where they were selected, as that is more contingent on whether they can agree on a number rather than "we selected a third round talent with our third round pick". Need to hit on picks, regardless of where they were selected, if a team wants to be/remain competitive. Big and small orgs alike.
Especially when Kuhl just all of a sudden was throwing high 90's sinkers? Oh, buddy did I think they had a special one. Then his control went from above average to I'm not even sure it was 20 grade.
Wasn't Oviedo called for the most pitch clock violations on team IIRC?
It didn't suit him, and his desired pace. And here we are, losing our #2 SP. The already-thin Pirates can't handle anymore TJ's. Huge blow.
Anyone remember the Stevie Wonder's favorite beer joke?
I.C. light?
Yeah. Just remember that joke from when I was a kid. Not sure people outside of Pittsburgh would get it. Just like "Kennywood's open".
The list of guys that I thought were going to be huge players is extensive. A few spilled over into my card collecting life. Jose Osuna, Tabata, Andrew Lambo, Gage Hinsz, and the biggest one, Tony Sanchez.
Hahaha yes, there better be a whole lotta guys fessing up to their Jose Osuna fetishes!
Right on buddy.
Well Arizona and Baltimore will get an extra first round pick in next years draft. I'm a little surprised that 3 out of the 4 RotY awards have resulted in extra picks under the new CBA.
Don't the players also gain an extra year of service as well. I am just guessing, but wouldn't this be bad for a cheap team that isn't going to re-sign the player? Then also be good for a team that spends money that is going to re-sign that player beyond 5 years? Just asking.
Nope, the team doesn't get a 7th. Teams hold the players back for 3 or 4 weeks to gain an extra year for not getting a full year. Pittsburgh usually waits till June to avoid super 2 to avoid paying an extra year of arbitration.
The player does get a full year if they finish in the top 2 or 3 (not sure). So it rewards a player that comes up later, rather than starting the season at the major league level if they win ROY or even runner up. The Cleveland pitcher Bibee for example gets a full year of service even though he came up later.
So do the Guardians get an extra pick because of Bibee finishing second in voting? And don't the Guardians also get one less year of service with him because he finished second in voting?
If so the Guardians probably view that as a good thing and a bad thing. Unless I have it all wrong.
They don't get an extra pick. He wasn't on the 26 man roster on opening day. Bibee also gets a full year of service so Cleveland doesn't get a 7th year.
Cleveland kinda gets the worst of both sides, no draft pick compensation and they don't get the 7th year of control.
This seems relevant to how the Pirates might handle Skenes. I doubt he is ready by Opening Day, if for no other reason than managing scaling up his workload (shorter time between starts, more innings expected over the course of the season). But it would be a little frustrating to hold him down to gain an extra year only to see him have a Bibee-like season.
I wouldn't complain if he's so good to finish top 2 in ROY, but I would be a little annoyed that we missed out on an extra pick. Of course odds are against him finishing top 2 even if he comes up in April, and he may not even be ready soon enough to have a real shot at ROY.
I'm thinking teams like the pirates should take a page from Baltimore, Arizona ect... bring their prized prospects up in September to get a taste of the majors. Then have them on the opening day roster. It paid off with Carroll and Henderson, the Rangers look like they have a front runner with Carter.
Again I'm not saying this for every prospect in the top 100 but prized prospects, top 25 in the national rankings.
If they feel Skenes is ready I'd rather start him in the majors than hold him back until April or June. If he's not ready at the start I'd be tempted to hold off until late August or September and give him a chance for ROY the next season.
Sorry I was a little slow on that, but I get it now. :)
The 2nd and 3rd teams were supposed to receive international picks if an international draft would have come to fruition. I'm not sure if they receive a larger international pool amount.
I also didn't word it very well.
A question related to the Oviedo possible TJ. Has there ever been clear explanation / outlook on Vince Velasquez (I easily could have missed it). I had low expectations when they signed him - was picturing Cahill 2021 results. However, in his short season he was quite good. He is a free agent so Pirates don't necessarily have any inside track if he is fully healthy, but he was briefly intriguing.
The explanation was non-Tommy John flexor surgery. Probably out a calendar year, so realistically I guess mid-2024.
Thank you. That kind of defeats my purpose / hope of adding him to the mix.
Far from crazy, upgrading 2B is exactly the kind of move we'd *want* them to be seeking in whatever godforsaken phase of rebuild they're moving into.
The 2023 club ranked 23rd in Pitcher WAR and 23rd in Hitter WAR. While no single metric can judge such a thing, at the end of the day ya still gotta beat your competition and so a comparative evaluation of where their needs fall seems reasonable.
If we've somehow talked ourselves into the 23rd best group of hitters only having like 1-2 positions that can be upgraded then I'm afraid we're firmly entrenched with mediocracy as the target. Of course they should look to add 2B to the list of upgrades.
2 positions where I think they have to assume the in-house candidates will improve the full year hitting is SS and Catcher(card board dummy would improve it). Cruz missing basically a full year worries me a lot as he was far from a MLB polished hitter.. just revisited his BB/K ratio - ouch. He did improve a lot as the 2022 went by, but that was a long time ago. But if he just does Jack - hits homeruns and strikes out, that should improve the SS offense. I am also hoping Reynolds has a better year. I still prioritize 1B over 2B (not that they can't consider both) for 2024. I know they weren't really trying ( I fully believe that was the plan) during the Chavis / Van Meter 2B experiment days but I also am hesitant on who they can really get for 2B that is a REAL upgrade and not just somebody preventing us from finding out if Peggy or Nick are just as good with some MLB at bats under their belts.
100% agreed.
I'm banking on something like 5 WAR from internal candidates spread across the exact three you listed (Cruz, Reynolds, Endy).
They've got work to do at 1B but not much relative to the other potions of need. 10th in the league last year at 2.2 WAR and should be returning Connor Joe.
Conversely, they were 29th and well below replacement level at 2B.
It may be tricky to acquire anyone better than a hypothetical peak version of the internal guys they have, but almost by definition it could not be easier to improve on how those players have actually performed.
anyone other than Triolo, Peguero or Nick starting at second is a clear sign of failure
no way its possible they go with anyone else
unless however both Nick and Peguero are traded and Triolo is used at first
In Jim Mora voice:
"Upgrading?? UPGRADING??!!"
I, for one, already have my BoD face tattoo.
I probably should just hit delete at this point, as even beginning to type it out is TMI and a visual that no reader wishes to see. So anyone reading this, this is the disclaimer portion where you read at your own discretion.
I was going to jokingly say, "I decided to go with the BoD ass tat". You know, BoD on right bum cheek or something. Then my brain stopped, went, "Oh, no", and then started cackling to myself. "B" on the left cheek. "D" on the right cheek.
*Insert ovation GIF lol
My first thought was also an ass tat, though I am not nearly as genius as you for how to utilize the human body's features to my advantage lmao
I'll probably end up needing to delete this lol
I see the Pirates having plenty of piggy back starters. It actually worked well for them in September, but then again they benefited some from the expanded roster.
Sources say the team will unveil new alternative uniforms in january so that we become the fourth team in the league with a bird on our hat
Parrot finally getting his dues!
Oh no…Oviedo may be getting TJ. Pirates need to sign 3 starters.
Hindsight is 20-20 but, as Mackey points out, why allow a young pitcher to have such a large increase in IP this season (more than a 50% increase from 117.1 in '22 with some of those coming in the lower-stress minors to 177.2 this season)?
In particular, I have no complaint about 112 pitches to complete the shutout on August 28, but then allowing him to throw 97 pitches in only 3.2 innings the next time out, followed by 92 in another 3.2 inning outing, and then 96 in only 5 innings the next time out? In general, 90+ pitches spread out over 6+ innings doesn't worry me but when a pitcher is throwing that many in 5 or fewer innings, I worry. And even more so with the pitch clock.
If you're going to do that with a young pitcher, you better know that he's able to handle it. Obviously, Oviedo wasn't. I feel like they ignored the numbers due to his frame, and sacrificed actual victories in the future for moral victories in September.
I think they probably would have scaled Oviedo back if they didn’t have so many injuries at the higher levels to begin with. There were so few left and he was healthy and the stuff looked good. Arms get hurt, it’s the way of the world. I’m not gonna fault them too much.
I would bet the biggest reason for all of the arm injuries in today's game is because of the max effort velocity pitcher's throw. A 100 mph fastball might put the equivalent strain on a pitcher's arm as three less stressful pitches.
I also agree with you that I loved the 112 pitch shut out by Oviedo, but I think that should have earned him an extra day's rest in the rotation.
I always wonder if it is the increase in pitches or the number of lifetime pitches. I always picture the ligaments as a rubber band (fan belt in a car that is good for xx Miles). Was Oviedo going to need TJ after 177 innings (assuming pitch count stays the same) whether he did 177 this year or 120 this year and then 57 into next year and then would need TJ? I do tend to go more in the former.. don't ramp up to significantly from year to year, but Ialways like this debate.
It’s neither. The primary reason for so many arm injuries most likely is not related to number of pitches thrown in a year or lifetime nearly as much as it is to pitchers trying to throw the ball as hard as possible usually from an early age. The severity of the force (in physics force equals mass times acceleration) repeatedly put on the arm to achieve the 95-100 mph velocity is the problem not the number of pitches.
In my opinion, this is the biggest problem in baseball right now. Obviously from a health standpoint, but also from a casual fan standpoint. It was often the starting pitcher that brought the casual fans to the game, knowing that guy would throw 7 to 9 innings. Instead we might see 10 or so pitchers in a game. It's not an easy problem to fix.
I've never worried as much about IP increases from one year to the next as I have about pitch counts in a condensed time frame. Lots of pitches in a few innings, multiple outings in a month with high pitch counts, etc. I've wondered if the rule of thumb on IP increases is really a proxy for allowing the body to adjust to reductions in recovery time. I.e., it's not the innings but what inning increases imply about reducing recovery time.
Within a game, I think the inning breaks are so important in giving a pitcher time to recover and have never understood why allowing a pitcher to throw 90ish pitches in 3-4 innings is more acceptable than allowing a pitcher to exceed 100 pitches in 8+ innings. My analogy is that it's harder for me to do 90 pushups in sets of 30 than in sets of 15, and I'm more sore the next day when I've done sets of 30.
I'll buy that. I still cling slightly to my theory that there are x amount of pitches in an arm before TJ (of course so dependent on each person), but I fully agree that a 90 pitch complete game (hello Greg Maddux) is much less harmful to an arm that 2 marathon innings with stress.
Bido going to throw 200 innings in 2024
My God.
Start with a 4-man rotation at the start of the season. Have Skenes make a few starts in Altoona, a few in Indy, if all goes well fast track his ass.
Three man. Go full old-timey.
If not him, feels like this guarantees that they rely on priester, ortiz, etc for regular starts which is terrifying for a team that should be expecting to surpass .500
I was borderline thinking they needed to sign/trade for 3 BEFORE this, now….
Me too. Really thought one mid rotation or better starter with a couple bounce back pitchers. At first thought maybe just go with bounce back guys via free agency. Trade for potential 1st basemen and a near ready arm that's on some other teams 40 that has an option or 2.
With the lack of a solid rotation this looks like another youth moment year a coming.
If Oviedo does need TJ and you are planning on 'attempting' to compete this year, Not sure they can go heavy on the bounce back guys now. Which is going to make it tough (expensive) to do so.
I don't see them being able to compete if he needs surgery. It would require at least 2 mid rotation pitchers and a bounce back pitcher or 2, before they even consider a 1st basemen or a defensive CF via free agency. An upgrade at 2nd becomes an afterthought.
Trades and short free agency signings are what I'm expecting now. Hope I'm wrong.
It says all it needs to say about what they’ve built if an injury to Oviedo is too much to overcome in 2024.
It really does, they're at least a year away from hopefully having a stable of home grown depth for the rotation. Even if they sign 3 or 4 starters, an injury or underperformance from anyone they would bring in, would most likely leave hole(s). Hopefully a couple of the young guys can step up instead of regressing.
Yea the amount needs is already kinda stretching it, adding the fact they need some of the kids to step up. NOW add in replacing Oviedo. Tall mountain to climb
BC has already gone on record that he is just looking for starters to get the team through June until Skenes, Jones, Solo and Bubba are ready
sunofa
at least we know now instead of April 5th
Oof, this would be a huge loss
As far as prospects who I was all in on who went bust...
There's so many, but the 2 that stand out to me that I loved when they were drafted...Kevin Newman & Travis Swaggerty.
Newman had that *hit tool*, could run and handle SS...I thought they had a perennial 3-win player for the next half decade. Watching Arizona in the playoffs and watching Corbin Carroll is who I envisioned Swaggerty.
To go all nerd on you. Of the 20 players selected at #19 (Newman) prior to Newman's year, 10 have less WAR and 10 have higher WAR than Newman. The best was Alex Rios and Michael Wacha was second, both good players. Not a reflection on your post as much as a reflection that a first round pick just means so much less in baseball in terms of the odds of success. Of the five taken after Newman(maybe also under consideration), 3 have negative WAR and 1 never made the Majors. The Homer Simpson DOH goes to the person taken 5 spots after - Walker Buehler - yes.. I'd take him!
Hell yeah, we should do an entire article and comment thread on this topic alone.
I could do my list, but the editor starts giving “too big for email” warnings.
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I'm with you on adding a 2bmen. I don't think Gonzales is the answer. Bae is utility at best and Peguero needs more time in AAA. Triolo is probably the best of the bunch but has some major regression in his profile.
There's not a lot of options in free agency, unless you want an Adam Frazier reunion or a guy like Witt Merrifield. I don't think I would take a chance on a guy like Tim Anderson or Amed Rosario.
If I'm Ben, I'm looking at trades for dudes like Jorge Polanco, or Gavin Biggio, maybe Cronenworth, Brendan Rodgers could use a change of scenery...Jonathan India is out there as well, but I doubt Cincy trades him to PGH. Bottom line, there is players out there available, but knowing the Pirates, they'll sign Isiah Kiner-Falefa.
Even though im not sold on anyone on the roster, i would rather any of them than IKF which scarily sounds exactly like the kind of guy we would go for. Bmac's sources could poke around on a biggio and manoah trade package
I have a weird feeling that they'll sign IFK and he'll immediately become the new Sean Rod, Van Meter and Hedges.
You have these Pirates off-season moves down to a science. You will probably get a call from Nutting to replace Cherington after this season.
And i promise you i will become delusional and find a way to justify it before coming back to the voices of reason lol
ZVR was an interesting player in that he had the frame to add velocity and he actually did for what amounted to a half of a season, then just lost it. He was shocking seeing him in person for the first time (prior to adding velocity), because he just had nothing. I was at a game in which he allowed one run over six innings and it was absolutely the luckiest game I've ever seen. People were getting all over my live report because they couldn't believe one run on four hits and a walk over six innings was a bad game. The opposing team was hammering line drives right at fielders the entire game. There were even 8-10 foul balls that were crowd-seeking missiles.
He added a good 4-5 MPH at one point, when added to his excellent control, made him a better looking prospect, but that went away quickly somehow. He was throwing mid-80s as a reliever by the time he was done.
I was only "all-in" on him until I saw him. Similar to Colton Cain. He pitched three games I saw in which he sat 86-88 MPH and his only effective pitch was a high fastball that he needed batters to chase. I saw absolutely nothing interesting about him other than size/age/lefty.
If I had to pick one player who I was sure would make the majors and didn't (not injury related), it was Jason Delaney. He must have known when I was there because all he did was drive the ball well. Great line drive swing. He even had some upper level success, then just crashed and burned after leaving the Pirates. They weren't comparable players (due mostly to a big age gap and athleticism/speed), but I saw him as much as I saw McCutchen in the minors, and Delaney was the better hitter every time.
Ooo, I got some good ones for who I was "all-in on" and flopped. But I'll just blame the FO and development team
Now you gotta share BnP, especially since that was my Q... welp lots of these were lmao
Well, two big all-in fails would be Chad Kuhl and Max Moroff lol
Man, when I think of prospects that went bust, I think of high draft picks and big-time prospects. Personally, I think Kuhl exceeded all expectations. 9th rd. pick out of Delaware that they were able to get extra juice on his heater. But I'm with you when he made his debut vs Kershaw and WON! He was full of energy and had that good fastball. Year 2 he was over 2 wins, year 3 he had TJS and was never the same...lost command and velo and was never the same. I remember over at the old site and the arguments of whether he was a 3rd or 4th starter after his 2nd year. Fun times!
We had a lot of fun with the array of arms they had back then. Then majority of them went bust lol
I guess with regards to expectations vs. where they were selected it would be a win. Moreso now than previously, I don't know if we can put much emphasis of expectations on where they were selected, as that is more contingent on whether they can agree on a number rather than "we selected a third round talent with our third round pick". Need to hit on picks, regardless of where they were selected, if a team wants to be/remain competitive. Big and small orgs alike.
Kuhl is one that i definitely saw and still can see the tantalizing upside, moroff on the other hand.....
I really liked Moroff after his 2015 season in Altoona. Switch hitting MIF with pop.
Me and you both.
I'll still hold to that Hurdle ruined him lol
Especially when Kuhl just all of a sudden was throwing high 90's sinkers? Oh, buddy did I think they had a special one. Then his control went from above average to I'm not even sure it was 20 grade.
Good thing we have transitioned from adding velo to losing velo as an org! Wouldnt wanna make that mistake again
*All of these. I used ur email as the starting point and the rest set up a couple more lol
Truly honored, thank you much AM!
I had a blast answering these. This quickly moved up to one of my favorite features already.
Will cook up some more for future features, dont worry