Jung hoo Lee is a sleeepr target for me. Platoon Joe at 1b Belt for $13m , cutch for $5m. Put triolo at 2b. Sign jack flarhety to a 1 year $18m or a 3/40 and you got yourself an interesting team keeping payroll under $90m.
I’d take a flier with major league deal for Bauer. I think he is probably a jerk but onfield outweighs off the field but I won’t argue with anyone who is on the other end there.
All this is asking is commitment to 2015 payroll levels.
I mean 2016 and 2017 were higher by several million but 2015 was a jump up. But 2014 payroll was similar to 2023 so you could easily argue it’s repeating history to see that jump again
I like the first move. Let’s go big. Sign Lee to a 5 year, 100 mil deal package Hank with Jared Jones and whatever small third piece for Dylan Cease.
Sign Kiermaier to a two year deal (20 mil total), Gray for three (60 mil) and one year deals to Belt (12) and Cutch (6). All of those moves, combined with current arb estimates from Keller and company puts payroll a shade over 110 mil.
I think Bauer will be well behaved and on a mission to prove himself, for whatever team that decides to sign him. or should I say if a team decides to sign him.
FWIW I think he's a genuine asshole and *at the very least* crosses the line into territory beyond mutual enjoyment.
But when the charges don't get prosecuted and the accuser agrees to completely drop the accusations *and* allow Bauer to talk about it publicly, well, it's a shame when some try taking advantage of the system meant to protect them.
Have no clue how much guilt can be laid at the feet of him or her in this particular case. She very well could’ve been looking for some easy money. However, one must take into consideration he has been accused by multiple women of crossing the line sexually, and he has used his fame to bully women on Twitter by asking his followers to attack women.
Personally, would rather lose without him, than win with him. Unless he shows genuine contrition. Than I could be convinced to bring him in.
I think you're probably right. It would still be hard for me to want to sign him. I think he would jump on a team friendly deal with options for the team not him.
Say year 1, $7 million with a $3 million buyout.
Year 2, $10 million with a $3 million buyout.
Year 3, $15 million with a $3 million buyout.
Year 4, $18 million
He gets a second chance for at least $10 million and upto $50 million for 4 years if all goes smooth.
The way I see it, here are our 14 players most likely to fill 13 spots, assuming no one gets hurt. We not only have to cut or send down one of those guys, but we will have to cut or send down another on every guy we sign. I would prefer we don't take any more flyers on hitters. If we are going to sign someone, they need to be solid.
Endy, Henry, Delay
Triolo, Joe,
Nick G, Peguero,
Oneil Cruz, Hayes
Reynolds, Bae, Suwinski, Palacios, Cutch
Pitching is a different story. We can take flyers this year, but probably not next year when hopefully the young guys get called up.
Do they need to score 100 more? They had a run differential of about -100. I wonder if their easier path to contention may be preventing 50-75 less, and getting some improvement on offense, because 100 runs gained seems unlikely in one offseason.
The market for paying for good fielding seems pretty cheap, especially when compared with top FA arms. It’s one of those things that is head scratching with this regime: why haven’t they tapped into that market yet?
10 runs equals a win. Need approximately 10 more wins to be a playoff team. Hence the 100 runs.
Although Cubs scored 819 runs compared to Pirates 692 and didn’t make it. And on the other side, Marlins scored 666 and did make it.
You’re right when you say it will be really hard to score 100 more runs. Basically need for EVERYTHING ti go right. Young guys improve significantly, Vets don’t get hurt and play at/near their peak, and new additions far exceed output of those who they’re replacing.
In short, resigning both Cutch and Santana ain’t gonna make it happen.
Good call with the 10 runs equals a win. That’s an easy (and correct) way to look at it.
The way I look at it, the Bucs were farther from league average offensively as opposed to defensively. So the easiest path I see is improving their “strength” in run prevention, as in defense and pitching.
I’m not advocating for just waiting on internal improvements offensively, but with young guys like Endy/Hank/Peguro and (fingers crossed) a full year of Cruz, this offense could look a lot better in a year.
I wasn't trying to win anything, just implying if we sign guys equivalent to Choi and Hedges like last year, we really don't gain 2 players to our major league roster. We replace 2 guys on our major league roster. Our hitters need to be a little better than that.
My hope is that the marginal value of adding wins (or WAR) is much higher this year than last. I don't know if it will impact how we do things (the proof is in the pudding), but adding, say, ~8 WAR via free agency this year could turn us into a contender whereas last year it would have only meant we'd be fewer games below .500. So maybe they'll look to fill the same needs with higher quality, but I'm usually disappointed with our offseason moves ;)
This year the additions will be upgraded from last year’s additions which were an upgrade from the prior years. Looking forward to see what transpires.
Flaherty would be a good addition. Manaea or any other under 40 lefty who can throw strikes makes sense even if he winds up pitching out of the pen especially these days when relievers pitch at least a third of most games.
The position players are not as interesting to me for a variety of reasons. If you sign Heyward or any other veteran outfielder for that matter, what happens with Davis? Heyward is on the down hill part of his career and would be a short term solution even if he worked out. You suggest Davis “sliding” behind the plate, but as what? The backup catcher? You really want your former #1 draft pick playing backup or does Endy move to first? I can’t see either of those things happening myself. Maybe they should trade Davis but again the Pirates took him #1. Do they give up on him already for a veteran who’s a temporary answer at best?
Belt at first is equally problematic unless he were strictly a lefty platoon with Triolo. Is paying him to play part-time really money well spent? I am tired of the Pirates settling on veterans in or past their mid 30’s whose best days are clearly behind them even if they could be slight but temporary upgrades particularly when they block a younger player who just might develop if given the chance.
I mean, that's the question, what to do with Davis. Everything else kind of falls into place after that. If they want him to catch more, they are going to need another outfielder. If he's staying in the outfield, then you can maybe focus elsewhere, or at the very least grab a defensive 4th outfielder.
Flaherty would be a good pickup on a 3 or 4 year deal. Manaea could work as well, still would like them to go for Shota Imanaga or Eduardo Rodriguez. In an ideal world getting 1 out of Imanaga or Rodriguez and 1 out of Flaherty or Manaea to solidify the rotation but that's not going to happen. If we get 1 out of the 4, great.
I’m still hoping the pirates go the trade route to bring in a 1b who can grow with this team. I agree with Wilbur and others that Santana is NOT the answer. I’m still hoping the Pirates can somehow land one of Vinnie Pasquantino, Andrew Vaughn, or Alex Kiriloff. I like the Busch idea as well as all of these guys are young enough to be an answer going forward
Mountcastle apparently is on the trade block; he’s young, gg candidate at 1B, and a full-time starter. He was brought up last week in the comments, and I’m growing fond of the idea.
Like all the guys you listed. Pasquantino and Kiriloff more than Vaughn. Busch should be the cheapest to aquire and has the lowest floor but also has the highest ceiling.
He’s 28, so he MIGHT bite on a one year if they make the money right. He’d still be able to cash in at 29. Although as a pitcher, that security of a multi year deal will probably mean more
I wonder if they would offer a contract with a 1 year at say $10 million with year 2 at say $14 million and year 3 at say $16 million.
The player has an opt out after year 1 with no additional compensation. , The team has an option as well with a $4 million buyout if years 2 and 3 are declined.
I’d want a far bigger piece than VV. We saw like five good starts before TJ surgery and I think he’ll be out till mid season anyway. I’m ok with the rest.
Something like flaherty and Erod would be the dream, but i was guessing the flaherty tier is their 'big' SP with a bounceback guy like VV as a realistic option. Would much prefer a bigger offseason than that though!
Not the sexiest move, but improve defense and would spell jack against LHSP. Knowing we will not shop on the expensive rack, working out some kinks of roster construction could provide some less obvious benefit as well
Apparently, Jake Cronenworth is on the block.
He'd be a nice fit at 2b.
. 689 ops
So . . . a cleanup hitter!!
plays first base
Flaherty - yes!
Manaea - sure, why not
Heyward - hell no
Belt - maybe if the price is right
Rosario - no thanks; too many MI already
Jung hoo Lee is a sleeepr target for me. Platoon Joe at 1b Belt for $13m , cutch for $5m. Put triolo at 2b. Sign jack flarhety to a 1 year $18m or a 3/40 and you got yourself an interesting team keeping payroll under $90m.
I’d take a flier with major league deal for Bauer. I think he is probably a jerk but onfield outweighs off the field but I won’t argue with anyone who is on the other end there.
All this is asking is commitment to 2015 payroll levels.
Good line "2015 payroll levels"........except that was our high mark ever for the PBC. Bob isn't ready to play again in the deep end of the pool.
I mean 2016 and 2017 were higher by several million but 2015 was a jump up. But 2014 payroll was similar to 2023 so you could easily argue it’s repeating history to see that jump again
I like the first move. Let’s go big. Sign Lee to a 5 year, 100 mil deal package Hank with Jared Jones and whatever small third piece for Dylan Cease.
Sign Kiermaier to a two year deal (20 mil total), Gray for three (60 mil) and one year deals to Belt (12) and Cutch (6). All of those moves, combined with current arb estimates from Keller and company puts payroll a shade over 110 mil.
I know I’m nitpicking, so apologies, but Henry and Jones for Carlson should get some fired!
You mean Cease? He’s 8th in pitching WAR since 2021, and he and Keller give them a formidable 1-2 through 2025 if they so choose.
I like Davis and Jones, but I like winning more. And you have to give to get.
Wow, don’t know how I read Carlson.........😳, for Cease yes please!
Cease and Desist, sir.
If we go $100 million on a free agent, I think I'd go with Shota Imanaga for 5 years or Yamamoto for 3 years. I like the go big approach.
There we go. I was clamoring for Kiermaier last off-season!
An alternative I was thinking of was a trade with San Diego for Musgrove and Grisham. But that might be too sketchy with Joe’s shoulder.
I think Bauer will be well behaved and on a mission to prove himself, for whatever team that decides to sign him. or should I say if a team decides to sign him.
There's also the part about the accuser lying?
This seems to have barely gotten any play, but is a big deal?
https://www.si.com/mlb/2023/10/03/trevor-bauer-accuser-reach-settlement-legal-dispute
Only way he gets back into MLB is if he basically begs for forgiveness for ALL the times he’s treated women like shit.
I can’t see a pompous ass like Bauer ever doing that.
very much agreed
That's not really what I got from that article. There's also three other women who have made allegations against him.
FWIW I think he's a genuine asshole and *at the very least* crosses the line into territory beyond mutual enjoyment.
But when the charges don't get prosecuted and the accuser agrees to completely drop the accusations *and* allow Bauer to talk about it publicly, well, it's a shame when some try taking advantage of the system meant to protect them.
Have no clue how much guilt can be laid at the feet of him or her in this particular case. She very well could’ve been looking for some easy money. However, one must take into consideration he has been accused by multiple women of crossing the line sexually, and he has used his fame to bully women on Twitter by asking his followers to attack women.
Personally, would rather lose without him, than win with him. Unless he shows genuine contrition. Than I could be convinced to bring him in.
exactly where i'm at with it as well.
I think you're probably right. It would still be hard for me to want to sign him. I think he would jump on a team friendly deal with options for the team not him.
Say year 1, $7 million with a $3 million buyout.
Year 2, $10 million with a $3 million buyout.
Year 3, $15 million with a $3 million buyout.
Year 4, $18 million
He gets a second chance for at least $10 million and upto $50 million for 4 years if all goes smooth.
The way I see it, here are our 14 players most likely to fill 13 spots, assuming no one gets hurt. We not only have to cut or send down one of those guys, but we will have to cut or send down another on every guy we sign. I would prefer we don't take any more flyers on hitters. If we are going to sign someone, they need to be solid.
Endy, Henry, Delay
Triolo, Joe,
Nick G, Peguero,
Oneil Cruz, Hayes
Reynolds, Bae, Suwinski, Palacios, Cutch
Pitching is a different story. We can take flyers this year, but probably not next year when hopefully the young guys get called up.
spot on
You're simply not going to win with this. This is a last place club.
That’s why some of these players will be dealt away this winter along with prospects to get better hitters.
Need 100 more runs. Ain’t coming just from Cruz and hoping the other young guys improve. They have to have external reinforcements!
Do they need to score 100 more? They had a run differential of about -100. I wonder if their easier path to contention may be preventing 50-75 less, and getting some improvement on offense, because 100 runs gained seems unlikely in one offseason.
The market for paying for good fielding seems pretty cheap, especially when compared with top FA arms. It’s one of those things that is head scratching with this regime: why haven’t they tapped into that market yet?
10 runs equals a win. Need approximately 10 more wins to be a playoff team. Hence the 100 runs.
Although Cubs scored 819 runs compared to Pirates 692 and didn’t make it. And on the other side, Marlins scored 666 and did make it.
You’re right when you say it will be really hard to score 100 more runs. Basically need for EVERYTHING ti go right. Young guys improve significantly, Vets don’t get hurt and play at/near their peak, and new additions far exceed output of those who they’re replacing.
In short, resigning both Cutch and Santana ain’t gonna make it happen.
Good call with the 10 runs equals a win. That’s an easy (and correct) way to look at it.
The way I look at it, the Bucs were farther from league average offensively as opposed to defensively. So the easiest path I see is improving their “strength” in run prevention, as in defense and pitching.
I’m not advocating for just waiting on internal improvements offensively, but with young guys like Endy/Hank/Peguro and (fingers crossed) a full year of Cruz, this offense could look a lot better in a year.
I wasn't trying to win anything, just implying if we sign guys equivalent to Choi and Hedges like last year, we really don't gain 2 players to our major league roster. We replace 2 guys on our major league roster. Our hitters need to be a little better than that.
Internal improvements.
disagree - I think at least five of those guys will have 3x more of a season than their 2023
okay. 4th place club.
I feel like the needs this year are the exact same as last year, minus catcher
My hope is that the marginal value of adding wins (or WAR) is much higher this year than last. I don't know if it will impact how we do things (the proof is in the pudding), but adding, say, ~8 WAR via free agency this year could turn us into a contender whereas last year it would have only meant we'd be fewer games below .500. So maybe they'll look to fill the same needs with higher quality, but I'm usually disappointed with our offseason moves ;)
I feel we've been repeating that year after year. Maybe THIS is the year?! lol
Better/more starting pitchers though.
Better players. As easy as that!
This year the additions will be upgraded from last year’s additions which were an upgrade from the prior years. Looking forward to see what transpires.
Well you put it that way, i dont feel nearly as positive lol
Maybe we could trade the Rays a bad pitcher (for once) for Jonathan Aranda, to play 1B
They'd fix him and Aranda would forget how to hit.
I do like Aranda though and he shouldn't break the prospect bank to get him. Still like Busch a little better but the 2 are comparable.
Flaherty would be a good addition. Manaea or any other under 40 lefty who can throw strikes makes sense even if he winds up pitching out of the pen especially these days when relievers pitch at least a third of most games.
The position players are not as interesting to me for a variety of reasons. If you sign Heyward or any other veteran outfielder for that matter, what happens with Davis? Heyward is on the down hill part of his career and would be a short term solution even if he worked out. You suggest Davis “sliding” behind the plate, but as what? The backup catcher? You really want your former #1 draft pick playing backup or does Endy move to first? I can’t see either of those things happening myself. Maybe they should trade Davis but again the Pirates took him #1. Do they give up on him already for a veteran who’s a temporary answer at best?
Belt at first is equally problematic unless he were strictly a lefty platoon with Triolo. Is paying him to play part-time really money well spent? I am tired of the Pirates settling on veterans in or past their mid 30’s whose best days are clearly behind them even if they could be slight but temporary upgrades particularly when they block a younger player who just might develop if given the chance.
I mean, that's the question, what to do with Davis. Everything else kind of falls into place after that. If they want him to catch more, they are going to need another outfielder. If he's staying in the outfield, then you can maybe focus elsewhere, or at the very least grab a defensive 4th outfielder.
Flaherty would be a good pickup on a 3 or 4 year deal. Manaea could work as well, still would like them to go for Shota Imanaga or Eduardo Rodriguez. In an ideal world getting 1 out of Imanaga or Rodriguez and 1 out of Flaherty or Manaea to solidify the rotation but that's not going to happen. If we get 1 out of the 4, great.
I’m still hoping the pirates go the trade route to bring in a 1b who can grow with this team. I agree with Wilbur and others that Santana is NOT the answer. I’m still hoping the Pirates can somehow land one of Vinnie Pasquantino, Andrew Vaughn, or Alex Kiriloff. I like the Busch idea as well as all of these guys are young enough to be an answer going forward
Mountcastle apparently is on the trade block; he’s young, gg candidate at 1B, and a full-time starter. He was brought up last week in the comments, and I’m growing fond of the idea.
Like all the guys you listed. Pasquantino and Kiriloff more than Vaughn. Busch should be the cheapest to aquire and has the lowest floor but also has the highest ceiling.
Down for any of these guys! Pasquatch would be my choice of course but also super expensive
Krilloff would be so cool
What about Brubaker for Krilloff?
It'd cost more than Brubaker for Kirilloff, I would like to get him though.
Krilloff certainly has injury concerns
Maybe throw in Burrows to get it done
That might work or even swap Sullivan for one of them and a lottery ticket.
Michael A Taylor's looks like the classic Buy High. Pass.
I like Flaherty on a 1 year, even if it's a lot. Pass on 3 years.
He’s 28, so he MIGHT bite on a one year if they make the money right. He’d still be able to cash in at 29. Although as a pitcher, that security of a multi year deal will probably mean more
Especially with how he finished down the stretch, might be a high ceiling gamble tbh
I wonder if they would offer a contract with a 1 year at say $10 million with year 2 at say $14 million and year 3 at say $16 million.
The player has an opt out after year 1 with no additional compensation. , The team has an option as well with a $4 million buyout if years 2 and 3 are declined.
BOA....RING....
Flaherty, VV, Belt, Michael A Taylor would be a fairly decent offseason imo
I’d want a far bigger piece than VV. We saw like five good starts before TJ surgery and I think he’ll be out till mid season anyway. I’m ok with the rest.
Something like flaherty and Erod would be the dream, but i was guessing the flaherty tier is their 'big' SP with a bounceback guy like VV as a realistic option. Would much prefer a bigger offseason than that though!
75-win ballclub
Michael A Taylor is exactly what I have in my mind for the outfield
Not the sexiest move, but improve defense and would spell jack against LHSP. Knowing we will not shop on the expensive rack, working out some kinks of roster construction could provide some less obvious benefit as well
Taylor would be at the expense of Bae
Perfect, he can go yesterday
Yea gotta be smart if you aren't going spend big. Think Taylor would be smart.
I'd prefer Dylan Carlson as maybe a change of scenery upside guy over Taylor.
This is a fun outside of the box option, would be down for this too
I did like Dylan Carlson coming up, that would definitely be worth a look