I hope Mackey and other local media remind Bob and BC, as well as the fan base via every media outlet available, during every baseball day in 2024, that two teams made it to WS just two years after 100 loss seasons. THIS needs to be clarion call to bring pressure to the F.O. Be relentless with the message......something similar to
the relentless pressure from the media on Canada/Tomlin/the Steelers OC.
The Rangers also convinced Bruce Bochy to come out of retirement and become one of the highest paid managers in MLB. Having an experienced and proven manager instead of guys who had never managed in the big leagues before in that position is invaluable.
The Rangers hired Chris Young after the 2020 season and kicked Jon Daniels upstairs when Daniels' rebuild wasn't exactly going gangbusters. Near the end of 2022 the owner decided they still weren't making enough progress and fired Daniels, leaving Young in charge, and they also brought in Bochy. A year later they have a title.
Nutting, meanwhile, is perfectly happy with a GM whose big accomplishment is to break a personal five-year streak of last-place finishes by finishing fourth.
It's a stark contrast in the level of determination. One team is determined to win, the other thinks it'd be cool but it's not that important.
I'd like to see the pirates sign a mid to top of the rotation arm (preferably a lefty). Example) Eduardo Rodriguez or Shota Imanaga 5 years $80+/- million.
A bounce back starter 1 or 2 for a year with potentially an option. Long list of pitchers in this category. Example) Montas, Giolito, Severino,, ect..... dollar amount depends on who they sign.
1st Basemen, beyond Hoskins it's pretty slim pickens, a trade might be the best option. My personal favorite isn't an option. A player I think they can get is Michael Busch. Santana is probably who the front office will get.
An elite defender in CF. There's a couple available in free agency and a few that can be had via trade. Hope they can find one who can hit a bit. Don't think they'll address it.
Relief pitching is not a huge need but hopefully they can find another power lefty that can be used in high leverage situations.
What I think the pirates will do.
SP 1, Keller
SP 2, Oviedo
SP 3, Bounce Back signing 1
SP 4, Bounce Back signing 2
SP 5, one of Contreras, Ortiz, Falter or Priester.
SS, Cruz
LF, Reynolds
3rd, Hayes
1st, Santana
DH, Cutch
CF, Suwinski
C, Rodriguez
RF, Palacios or Joe
2nd, Triolo or Peguero
Bench, Delay, and the one not starting in RF and 2nd. Last spot is up for grabs.
(Davis will be the starting catcher in Indy, if the front office isn't blowing smoke. Otherwise he's the starting right fielder.)
Bullpen, Bednar, Mlod, Holderman, Moreta and one of Hatch or Jackson. Borucki, Hernandez and Falter(if not starting). Hernandez might begin the season in Indy as a late inning leverage arm with Nicolas and Selby. Others in Indy) Stratton, Bido, Kranick?, and Wolf. Kranick might be out of options.
I'd like Mayo as well, Baltimore would probably want to start by asking for Keller (they would add a couple of prospects). Their window is open and they'll most likely want established mlb starting pitchers to fill out their rotation.
Money certainly matters but not nearly enough as choosing the right players to spend it on. Texas made the right choices with Seager, Semien and Eovaldi. The Mets and Padres, not so much. The question that must be answered is: Do you push in all your chips and trust GMBC to make the right choices in a highly-competitive market? That requires a level of trust in Cherington that I don't possess.
E-Rod opting out shock me a bit, after he refused to be traded he walks away...... I’m always on the players side, but Tigers’ fan have to feel a little crossed! Who knows maybe he resigns.
With his opt-out, he's probably looking for a couple more years, from 3 years(currently) to 5 or more since opting out. He would have had $49 million left, probably can get $80+ million over 5 years. Hope Ben kicks the tires on Rodriguez.
Money certainly matters in MLB success. Can’t argue that point. But by no means does it guarantee better results. Just look at Mets and Padres. Both initiated large increases in payroll and had regular season success in ‘22, but both faltered badly this season. In fact the Padres had to do some financial gymnastics to not be in violation of MLB rules on payroll to income rules.
Do I want BN to spend more? Certainly. Do I think it’s a “cure” to what ails Pirates? Not necessarily.
The most obvious lesson from the WS is that, with enough determination and good judgment, a bad team can be turned around quickly. Rebuilding does not require years and years of rock bottom payrolls and minor league level baseball. The long-running Cherington Clown Show was a choice, not a necessity.
Money will always be a factor for sure and while I admittedly am not a financial genius I feel there is not a legitimate reason for Nutting and the Pirates to not invest some serious money in order to compete since the teams value has skyrocketed from the amount Nutting paid in becoming the principal owner in 2007. Nutting had no problem selling his PA resort properties to a firm from Colorado so we will probably see him sell the Pirates for a huge profit before we ever see him invest in a winner again.
I see so many comments various places that equate franchise value with money the owner should be spending. I get it, but I think it’s an unrealistic idea. So many holes….
For one, ownership doesn’t actually *have* that money to spend, any more than you can just spend your home equity — it would have to be borrowed.
For another, it isn’t a sustainable solution. It isn’t a revenue stream. Once you spend it, it’s spent. If it buys them a few seasons of high payrolls…then what?
If you own a home that has appreciated tremendously in value over the past three decades, but you still make a lower-middle class income, the fact that you now have this high value *asset* doesn’t mean you can suddenly afford to hire yourself a gardener and a butler and jet off to exotic locales whenever you wish, because you still have a lunchbox *income*. Yeah, you have a property that is worth a bunch of money, but that’s not how that works.
While I agree completely, the Pirates had an annual payroll in the neighborhood of 55 million for Cherington's first 4 seasons (if we prorate the Covid-shortened season) and maybe 15 million in draft and international free agent expenses. Ticket sales have been in the neighborhood of 1.6 million per season, so the Pirates are generating somewhere around 35-40 million in revenue from tickets and probably a similar amount or a little less in concessions. When we subtract cost of goods sold and vendor labor, the Pirates probably have about 50 million or so to put into their organization for PNC-generated revenue alone. Add to this the local TV deal, the national deal and MLB streaming and licensing for jerseys, etc..., and revenue sharing, the Pirates should have an annual budget somewhere around 110 million. Minor league systems, coaches, front-office people, scouts, travel, etc. probably account for somewhere around 25 million, maybe a little more.
These are all ballpark estimates, but it stands to reason that there is more than 55 million to spend on the MLB product. MLB payroll should be closer to 80 or 85 million. 3 years of saving, skimping, and tanking should have resulted in a warchest of 75-90 million to be deployed now, I would assume. That is a 3-4 year contract for a significant impact player. Let's see if they use it or not. If not, then I think it is appropriate to start asking questions about where the money went.
That’s a great point I don’t think is covered enough: multiple seasons of low payrolls should bulk up payroll for when it’s time to spend as the talent starts to bloom. And it can’t be for like 1-2 seasons like the 15-16 Pirates. They can and should spend more.
The hypothetical value of the franchise should have nothing to do with yearly spending anymore than your home’s supposed market value determines how many groceries you’ll buy next month. It’s a matter of income, which MLB owners are allowed to keep secret, versus spending for needs and wants.
The Pirates receive significant revenue sharing dollars and it’s been reported (accurately or not who can say?) that their concession sales alone exceed their major league payroll. Make no mistake, whether you agree with how they operate or not, the Pirates lack of spending is a choice and not a necessity.
There is a reason the Pirates are a revenue sharing recipient; MLB in Pittsburgh is not economically and/or financially feasible without it. And, there is no freaking way that concession sales are greater than MLB payroll. That’s a knee-slapper. Concessions spend for the Bucs is around $65 per GROUP and that includes alcohol. They’re lucky if concession revenues exceed MLB benefits plus their portion of payroll taxes. These are just revenues and do not include the costs of labor and food to provide concessions, which are contracted to a third-party, or the fact that a percentage of concession sales are split with the Sports Authority.
Good points, lol. The last part really hit home because I'm in that situation and while the home value has skyrocketed so has the cost of maintenance. My retirement income has pretty much stayed the same.
Bowen leading (tied with 11) the AFL homerun derby after round 1.
The Pirates did in fact decline Jarlen Garcia's option.
So he wins the Lonnie Chisenhall Award.
what was Garcia´s injury?
Nerve problem. Was never really explained much.
Perdomo had TJS, I can see why they put him on waivers.
I hadn't seen that, but it explains things.
Might be some chance of him accepting assignment.
It would be nice if he accepted assignment.
I hope Mackey and other local media remind Bob and BC, as well as the fan base via every media outlet available, during every baseball day in 2024, that two teams made it to WS just two years after 100 loss seasons. THIS needs to be clarion call to bring pressure to the F.O. Be relentless with the message......something similar to
the relentless pressure from the media on Canada/Tomlin/the Steelers OC.
The Rangers also convinced Bruce Bochy to come out of retirement and become one of the highest paid managers in MLB. Having an experienced and proven manager instead of guys who had never managed in the big leagues before in that position is invaluable.
The Rangers hired Chris Young after the 2020 season and kicked Jon Daniels upstairs when Daniels' rebuild wasn't exactly going gangbusters. Near the end of 2022 the owner decided they still weren't making enough progress and fired Daniels, leaving Young in charge, and they also brought in Bochy. A year later they have a title.
Nutting, meanwhile, is perfectly happy with a GM whose big accomplishment is to break a personal five-year streak of last-place finishes by finishing fourth.
It's a stark contrast in the level of determination. One team is determined to win, the other thinks it'd be cool but it's not that important.
I'd like to see the pirates sign a mid to top of the rotation arm (preferably a lefty). Example) Eduardo Rodriguez or Shota Imanaga 5 years $80+/- million.
A bounce back starter 1 or 2 for a year with potentially an option. Long list of pitchers in this category. Example) Montas, Giolito, Severino,, ect..... dollar amount depends on who they sign.
1st Basemen, beyond Hoskins it's pretty slim pickens, a trade might be the best option. My personal favorite isn't an option. A player I think they can get is Michael Busch. Santana is probably who the front office will get.
An elite defender in CF. There's a couple available in free agency and a few that can be had via trade. Hope they can find one who can hit a bit. Don't think they'll address it.
Relief pitching is not a huge need but hopefully they can find another power lefty that can be used in high leverage situations.
What I think the pirates will do.
SP 1, Keller
SP 2, Oviedo
SP 3, Bounce Back signing 1
SP 4, Bounce Back signing 2
SP 5, one of Contreras, Ortiz, Falter or Priester.
SS, Cruz
LF, Reynolds
3rd, Hayes
1st, Santana
DH, Cutch
CF, Suwinski
C, Rodriguez
RF, Palacios or Joe
2nd, Triolo or Peguero
Bench, Delay, and the one not starting in RF and 2nd. Last spot is up for grabs.
(Davis will be the starting catcher in Indy, if the front office isn't blowing smoke. Otherwise he's the starting right fielder.)
Bullpen, Bednar, Mlod, Holderman, Moreta and one of Hatch or Jackson. Borucki, Hernandez and Falter(if not starting). Hernandez might begin the season in Indy as a late inning leverage arm with Nicolas and Selby. Others in Indy) Stratton, Bido, Kranick?, and Wolf. Kranick might be out of options.
I like Coby Mayo for Priester, Holderman and a SP prospect not named Chandler or Solometo.
I'd like Mayo as well, Baltimore would probably want to start by asking for Keller (they would add a couple of prospects). Their window is open and they'll most likely want established mlb starting pitchers to fill out their rotation.
Money certainly matters but not nearly enough as choosing the right players to spend it on. Texas made the right choices with Seager, Semien and Eovaldi. The Mets and Padres, not so much. The question that must be answered is: Do you push in all your chips and trust GMBC to make the right choices in a highly-competitive market? That requires a level of trust in Cherington that I don't possess.
A fair amount of quality opting out of their contracts...
E-Rod opting out shock me a bit, after he refused to be traded he walks away...... I’m always on the players side, but Tigers’ fan have to feel a little crossed! Who knows maybe he resigns.
My guess is he wants to WIN NOW...The big boys will be all over him, not a chance in hell he would sign with Pirates...
With his opt-out, he's probably looking for a couple more years, from 3 years(currently) to 5 or more since opting out. He would have had $49 million left, probably can get $80+ million over 5 years. Hope Ben kicks the tires on Rodriguez.
Money certainly matters in MLB success. Can’t argue that point. But by no means does it guarantee better results. Just look at Mets and Padres. Both initiated large increases in payroll and had regular season success in ‘22, but both faltered badly this season. In fact the Padres had to do some financial gymnastics to not be in violation of MLB rules on payroll to income rules.
Do I want BN to spend more? Certainly. Do I think it’s a “cure” to what ails Pirates? Not necessarily.
The most obvious lesson from the WS is that, with enough determination and good judgment, a bad team can be turned around quickly. Rebuilding does not require years and years of rock bottom payrolls and minor league level baseball. The long-running Cherington Clown Show was a choice, not a necessity.
Money will always be a factor for sure and while I admittedly am not a financial genius I feel there is not a legitimate reason for Nutting and the Pirates to not invest some serious money in order to compete since the teams value has skyrocketed from the amount Nutting paid in becoming the principal owner in 2007. Nutting had no problem selling his PA resort properties to a firm from Colorado so we will probably see him sell the Pirates for a huge profit before we ever see him invest in a winner again.
I see so many comments various places that equate franchise value with money the owner should be spending. I get it, but I think it’s an unrealistic idea. So many holes….
For one, ownership doesn’t actually *have* that money to spend, any more than you can just spend your home equity — it would have to be borrowed.
For another, it isn’t a sustainable solution. It isn’t a revenue stream. Once you spend it, it’s spent. If it buys them a few seasons of high payrolls…then what?
If you own a home that has appreciated tremendously in value over the past three decades, but you still make a lower-middle class income, the fact that you now have this high value *asset* doesn’t mean you can suddenly afford to hire yourself a gardener and a butler and jet off to exotic locales whenever you wish, because you still have a lunchbox *income*. Yeah, you have a property that is worth a bunch of money, but that’s not how that works.
While I agree completely, the Pirates had an annual payroll in the neighborhood of 55 million for Cherington's first 4 seasons (if we prorate the Covid-shortened season) and maybe 15 million in draft and international free agent expenses. Ticket sales have been in the neighborhood of 1.6 million per season, so the Pirates are generating somewhere around 35-40 million in revenue from tickets and probably a similar amount or a little less in concessions. When we subtract cost of goods sold and vendor labor, the Pirates probably have about 50 million or so to put into their organization for PNC-generated revenue alone. Add to this the local TV deal, the national deal and MLB streaming and licensing for jerseys, etc..., and revenue sharing, the Pirates should have an annual budget somewhere around 110 million. Minor league systems, coaches, front-office people, scouts, travel, etc. probably account for somewhere around 25 million, maybe a little more.
These are all ballpark estimates, but it stands to reason that there is more than 55 million to spend on the MLB product. MLB payroll should be closer to 80 or 85 million. 3 years of saving, skimping, and tanking should have resulted in a warchest of 75-90 million to be deployed now, I would assume. That is a 3-4 year contract for a significant impact player. Let's see if they use it or not. If not, then I think it is appropriate to start asking questions about where the money went.
That’s a great point I don’t think is covered enough: multiple seasons of low payrolls should bulk up payroll for when it’s time to spend as the talent starts to bloom. And it can’t be for like 1-2 seasons like the 15-16 Pirates. They can and should spend more.
Or it can just go as dividends to the limited partners.
The hypothetical value of the franchise should have nothing to do with yearly spending anymore than your home’s supposed market value determines how many groceries you’ll buy next month. It’s a matter of income, which MLB owners are allowed to keep secret, versus spending for needs and wants.
The Pirates receive significant revenue sharing dollars and it’s been reported (accurately or not who can say?) that their concession sales alone exceed their major league payroll. Make no mistake, whether you agree with how they operate or not, the Pirates lack of spending is a choice and not a necessity.
There is a reason the Pirates are a revenue sharing recipient; MLB in Pittsburgh is not economically and/or financially feasible without it. And, there is no freaking way that concession sales are greater than MLB payroll. That’s a knee-slapper. Concessions spend for the Bucs is around $65 per GROUP and that includes alcohol. They’re lucky if concession revenues exceed MLB benefits plus their portion of payroll taxes. These are just revenues and do not include the costs of labor and food to provide concessions, which are contracted to a third-party, or the fact that a percentage of concession sales are split with the Sports Authority.
Good points, lol. The last part really hit home because I'm in that situation and while the home value has skyrocketed so has the cost of maintenance. My retirement income has pretty much stayed the same.
Cheng and Harrington to the Mets for Cantina
Priester, Ashcraft, Nick and Yordanny for Musgrove
Too much for Musgrove.