The Pirates have to prepare to trade some of the second basemen they have accumulated. Peguero and Triolo give us the best opportunity to use them at 2B and also at other IF positions. Peguero can be the backup to Oneil Cruz at SS, and Triolo can be the backup for Ke'Bryan Hayes at 3B, and has been very solid defensively at both 3B and 2B, as well as playing 1B if needed.
Ji-Hwan Bae gives us the best footspeed of the group, and is the only LH hitter. He got the most exposure (111 games, 334 AB) with 30 BB, 17 doubles, and 24 SB's for the Pirates. He also played CF very well for the Pirates in 2023 so he gives us that also. Nick Gonzales was up for 35 Games in 2023. His 36 K to only 6 BB in 115 AB were not good, and he does not lend himself well to as good of a Utility player as the other 3 we are talking about.
I would start the year with Cruz and Peguero as the MI, and Triolo as the Utility IF. After that, not sure Bae is needed in CF in 2024, and BC is probably hoping Gonzales has a strong ST to where he can include him in a pre-season trade.
Forgot to mention - Termarr Johnson, in his age 19 season, was an .868 OPS at A, and an .842 OPS at A+, while hitting for both average and power (18 HR in 349 AB), while also being very close to a 1-1 BB/K rate with 101 Walks/120 Strikeouts. He may start his age 20 season at A+, but he should be at AA by May. The Pirates better start to plan what they want the MI to look like in 2025!
I’m a huge Triolo fan. He gives you superb defense and on-base ability, which the Pirates have been lacking for so long. Given his lack of power, I’d hate to play him at first, but I’d have no problem with him as the regular second baseman. Between Peguero and Gonzalez, I’d have to think that Peguero has more trade value, so if shipping him off is what’s needed to get a young starting pitcher, I’m all for it.
Triolo might be starting to tap into his raw power. He hit the ball with much more authority down the stretch. I can see him in a super utility role or taking the second base job.
Folks keep forgetting that he was coming off hamate surgery, which he had in spring 2023. He also has a history of needing adjustment time at new levels. In AA in 2022, through June 11 he had eight extra base hits, all doubles, in 194 ABs. After June 11, he had 13 doubles, five triples and nine homers in 301 ABs. The baserunning is also a big plus. Statcast gives him 77th percentile speed. There ARE scouts out there who've raved about this guy for years.
Yep, and 9 of his 12 xbh's came in September. He might have only hit 3 homeruns but he would have had 5 or 6 in most parks. (Only a couple would he have had less.)
He's a keeper in my mind. The hamate does zap power.
I think most Pirate fans would be surprised that Nick's OBP is pretty high as are his walk totals. He's not a total mess at the plate he just tries to murder everything so his swing strike rate is high BUT he does have a good eye.
I have a feeling that if the Marlins and Pirates get together on a Cabrera trade, Peguero will be a piece the Marlins insist on! Probably Peggy, Contreras, and a lower level guy. With only a couple years away I think I would consider it
I really think if this rebuild is going to be a success they need one of Peguero or Gonzales to break out and be an above average every day player. You're talking about a top trade acquisition and a first round pick, you have to hit on those. Love Triolo as a super utility guy but I don't think he's ever going to be much more than that
The way the roster looks now, I still think that Triolo should be the regular first baseman for his defense if for no other reason. He’d save a lot of throwing errors and hence runs, certainly over Joe who has no clue how to play the position but doesn’t make many errors there because he never even comes close to a lot of throws a real first baseman would easily catch or block. Despite Triolo not showing much home run power so far he has shown he knows how to hit major league pitching. I know Cherington has said that he won’t be playing first base, but he says all kinds of shite that never happens.
And if that includes the weak side CF platoon (assuming Jack continues to struggle which I’m thinking that he’s not after watching him adjust his outside plate coverage last month of season) even better.
If they sign Santana, the bench is going to be restricted. Presumably, that would mean Cutch becoming the primary RF. The bench would be Joe, a catcher, the 2B, Triolo (who I think is pretty much a lock to be on the team as an all-purpose guy) and an OF. Nick would be out if Peguero wins the 2B job and Bae would be out if they sign an OF. The one thing Bae has in his favor is that he's a good CF. But that would push Palacios out.
I think Liover and Triolo have the edge going into spring for the 2nd base job. I feel Bae needs to focus on 3 aspects of his game, 1) Center Field 2) Approach batting 3) How to utilize his speed on the base paths. He probably needs sometime in Indy, unless he shows he can be better than average in CF that gets on base and causes havoc for the other team, not ours when he's on base. NickyG needs to figure out how to hit something other than fastballs, probably best to get the reps in Indy until he does.
I think Nick is the odd man out. There is a spot on the roster for the other 3.
Also, Sean Manaea just signed with the Mets for 2/28. No reason the Pirates couldn't do that. If they sign someone like Manaea and maybe Michael Taylor, I would consider this offseason palatable.
I saw an earlier rumor that they had several offers on the table for Manaea. They probably pivot now, some decent arms like Paxton and Clevinger among others still available.
Yeah, there are still options, but they're running out. The depth this offseason of mid-rotation arms was pretty impressive, it'd be a shame to completely miss out. Perez and Gonzales are fine inning-eating options, but I hope they aren't it.
Along these lines, I'd guess Gonzales carries the least value as a potential trade piece. So, if we can trust the rumors that a trade is coming, Gonzales may be more likely that we might think to make our Opening Day roster.
The Pirates have to prepare to trade some of the second basemen they have accumulated. Peguero and Triolo give us the best opportunity to use them at 2B and also at other IF positions. Peguero can be the backup to Oneil Cruz at SS, and Triolo can be the backup for Ke'Bryan Hayes at 3B, and has been very solid defensively at both 3B and 2B, as well as playing 1B if needed.
Ji-Hwan Bae gives us the best footspeed of the group, and is the only LH hitter. He got the most exposure (111 games, 334 AB) with 30 BB, 17 doubles, and 24 SB's for the Pirates. He also played CF very well for the Pirates in 2023 so he gives us that also. Nick Gonzales was up for 35 Games in 2023. His 36 K to only 6 BB in 115 AB were not good, and he does not lend himself well to as good of a Utility player as the other 3 we are talking about.
I would start the year with Cruz and Peguero as the MI, and Triolo as the Utility IF. After that, not sure Bae is needed in CF in 2024, and BC is probably hoping Gonzales has a strong ST to where he can include him in a pre-season trade.
Forgot to mention - Termarr Johnson, in his age 19 season, was an .868 OPS at A, and an .842 OPS at A+, while hitting for both average and power (18 HR in 349 AB), while also being very close to a 1-1 BB/K rate with 101 Walks/120 Strikeouts. He may start his age 20 season at A+, but he should be at AA by May. The Pirates better start to plan what they want the MI to look like in 2025!
Dodgers deferring more salary. It's almost unbelievable at this point.
I’m a huge Triolo fan. He gives you superb defense and on-base ability, which the Pirates have been lacking for so long. Given his lack of power, I’d hate to play him at first, but I’d have no problem with him as the regular second baseman. Between Peguero and Gonzalez, I’d have to think that Peguero has more trade value, so if shipping him off is what’s needed to get a young starting pitcher, I’m all for it.
Triolo might be starting to tap into his raw power. He hit the ball with much more authority down the stretch. I can see him in a super utility role or taking the second base job.
Folks keep forgetting that he was coming off hamate surgery, which he had in spring 2023. He also has a history of needing adjustment time at new levels. In AA in 2022, through June 11 he had eight extra base hits, all doubles, in 194 ABs. After June 11, he had 13 doubles, five triples and nine homers in 301 ABs. The baserunning is also a big plus. Statcast gives him 77th percentile speed. There ARE scouts out there who've raved about this guy for years.
Yep, and 9 of his 12 xbh's came in September. He might have only hit 3 homeruns but he would have had 5 or 6 in most parks. (Only a couple would he have had less.)
He's a keeper in my mind. The hamate does zap power.
at this moment, is Nick´s value not identical to Neil Walker´s 2008 season with indy?
https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=walker001nei
i think he will continue to clone Walker´s path, he´ll start in Indy in 2024 and just rip it up like Walker´s .951 ops over 43 games there
I think most Pirate fans would be surprised that Nick's OBP is pretty high as are his walk totals. He's not a total mess at the plate he just tries to murder everything so his swing strike rate is high BUT he does have a good eye.
Peggy fan club checking in
I have a feeling that if the Marlins and Pirates get together on a Cabrera trade, Peguero will be a piece the Marlins insist on! Probably Peggy, Contreras, and a lower level guy. With only a couple years away I think I would consider it
sources are agreeing with this
Youre probably right and i would definitely be with him included in any package like that
Meant to say with Temarr only a couple seasons away🤷🏼♂️
precisly - you could add Cheng, Brannigan and McAdoo to that list as well
Jebb too
I really think if this rebuild is going to be a success they need one of Peguero or Gonzales to break out and be an above average every day player. You're talking about a top trade acquisition and a first round pick, you have to hit on those. Love Triolo as a super utility guy but I don't think he's ever going to be much more than that
Disagree somewhat here. I think Triolo is the better player. Sort of a Freddy Sanchez, and I'd take that any day.
The way the roster looks now, I still think that Triolo should be the regular first baseman for his defense if for no other reason. He’d save a lot of throwing errors and hence runs, certainly over Joe who has no clue how to play the position but doesn’t make many errors there because he never even comes close to a lot of throws a real first baseman would easily catch or block. Despite Triolo not showing much home run power so far he has shown he knows how to hit major league pitching. I know Cherington has said that he won’t be playing first base, but he says all kinds of shite that never happens.
Triolo’s a plus defender anywhere in the IF, so he’s probably slated for the OF.
If I’m not mistaken he has taken some reps in CF..
Yep. Truth is, he can probably play anywhere.
The key is to find a defensive position where the bat plays...that position might be utility.
And if that includes the weak side CF platoon (assuming Jack continues to struggle which I’m thinking that he’s not after watching him adjust his outside plate coverage last month of season) even better.
If they sign Santana, the bench is going to be restricted. Presumably, that would mean Cutch becoming the primary RF. The bench would be Joe, a catcher, the 2B, Triolo (who I think is pretty much a lock to be on the team as an all-purpose guy) and an OF. Nick would be out if Peguero wins the 2B job and Bae would be out if they sign an OF. The one thing Bae has in his favor is that he's a good CF. But that would push Palacios out.
oh you think we carry five on the bench instead of four?
Hmm, no, a Santana signing might cost Joe a job.
i have this with a Tellez / Oliveras platoon
SS Cruz
LF Reynolds
DH Tellez
1B %Santana / Joe
C Tank / Delay
3B Hayes
RF Cutch / Oliveres
2B Peguero / Triolo
CF Suwinski
I guess in that scenario, you are saying that Bae is a better choice than Joe
NL West teams and Toronto are out looking for a right handed hitter
from how i see it, signing Santana means that Suwinski does not need a platoon partner and we are ok with him in center field
I think Liover and Triolo have the edge going into spring for the 2nd base job. I feel Bae needs to focus on 3 aspects of his game, 1) Center Field 2) Approach batting 3) How to utilize his speed on the base paths. He probably needs sometime in Indy, unless he shows he can be better than average in CF that gets on base and causes havoc for the other team, not ours when he's on base. NickyG needs to figure out how to hit something other than fastballs, probably best to get the reps in Indy until he does.
I think Nick is the odd man out. There is a spot on the roster for the other 3.
Also, Sean Manaea just signed with the Mets for 2/28. No reason the Pirates couldn't do that. If they sign someone like Manaea and maybe Michael Taylor, I would consider this offseason palatable.
I saw an earlier rumor that they had several offers on the table for Manaea. They probably pivot now, some decent arms like Paxton and Clevinger among others still available.
Yeah, there are still options, but they're running out. The depth this offseason of mid-rotation arms was pretty impressive, it'd be a shame to completely miss out. Perez and Gonzales are fine inning-eating options, but I hope they aren't it.
💯, they need to do better than Perez and Gonzo
They do, but I think they're ok for inning eaters, which the Pirates need, particularly in the beginning of the year.
That's where I feel. Everyone else kind of offers some sort of versatility as well, Nicky G is just kind of a 2B that can't really hit yet.
60 XBH’s last year between AAA/MLB
Along these lines, I'd guess Gonzales carries the least value as a potential trade piece. So, if we can trust the rumors that a trade is coming, Gonzales may be more likely that we might think to make our Opening Day roster.