Big difference--last game they let him pitch into the 7th and get to 85 pitches. Tonight, they didn't even send him out for the 6th when he was at 59 pitches.
Maybe the lesson from last time should have been 6 innings or ~75 pitches, but they overcorrected, which is what people do when they really don't know what they're doing.
My initial post was before Ortiz blew the game for us, so no hindsight needed.
But maybe you can explain the logic of letting pitch counts fluctuate by 26! from one game to another, since you and Sheltie often seem to be on the same page but Sheltie will never explain his reasoning.
So what’s the answer? Just keep doing the same things and hope for different results? Cruz has been striking out 43% of his ABs and honestly looks lost again. Williams and Taylor are on the team for defense and the every day catcher is hitting in the .180 range. Meanwhile Bart is hitting .400 with more home runs and RBI in 3 games than Davis has in 15 games and (apples and oranges you say?) Gonzales is hitting .397 and striking out 19% of the time and Perguero is hitting .344 in Indy. Something needs to happen to shake things up somehow before losing becomes the norm again or maybe it is the norm.
It is noise, at least right now. It’s April 17 and you want to shake things up. Sitting Davis and Cruz for a breather is a good idea, but starting the shuttle to Indy isn’t.
Cruz was the worst player on the Indy roster for like the first five weeks of 2022. Might just have another Adam LaRoche situation on our hands. Let him hit himself out of it and hopefully figure out how to show up ready to go in the future.
I am very glad (at least for the moment) that the Pirates did not fall into the long-term deal trap with Cruz. There seem to be some red flags flying, but I'm not convinced that he has any more of an "attitude problem" than most young players. However, I am also not convinced that he does not have an attitude problem.
I would go a couple more weeks at least before thinking about any changes to the 26-man that are not the result of injury. It's not one guy or two guys. It's pretty much a team effort at this point to not get hits. Some guys will start to pick it up, like Suwinski and hopefully Cruz. Still... the offense is about what I expected... not exceptional. They are going to need to be rock solid in all the other areas of the game: baserunning; fielding; and pitching.
Right now it’s just noise. Not enough data to shake it up too much. I would probably sit Cruz for a few games and try to get him right. Probably same with Davis and give Bart an opportunity.
Proof that we have no idea how to predict baseball all in one game. A bullpen we thought would be a strength struggles again and Jones increasingly looking like the best arm they have.
They’re conserving his inning count. Something like 5.2 innings on average rest of the way will exceed last season by 40 innings. They’ll have to skip some starts at some point
With high velo arms going down like crazy, I have no problem with the approach they’re taking with Jones & Skenes. They are the future and you must protect the future.
The only trouble is, we have zero evidence limiting workloads keeps ligaments from snapping. Orioles just lost Wells to elbow stuff and he was like a 100 inning guy. Bobby Miller's innings were managed and he just went down. The answer to reducing injury is pitching worse (throwing softer and not maxing out spin) and no pitcher is going to do that.
Honestly I always want them to take the best guy possible at the top. If that’s one of the college bats or arms who are presumably in that tier (prep class sounds like one of the worst in years), I’m cool with it. I’m never a fan of the draft for need, unless it’s coinciding with a guy who is worth it at the spot.
Call me old school, please, but I don’t get it. Fifty strikes in fifty-nine pitches and that’s it? I’m not sure I’ve seen that kind of control before. If he was in his junior year at Texas, he’d be throwing 120 every start.
I wonder if they are planning on going with a 4 man rotation for a week or so while Gonzales is on the shelf. If that is the case, you want to limit pitch counts.
He really is one of the better bench players in the league at this point. I keep waiting for him to turn into a pumpkin, but the clock never seems to get to midnight for him.
Is Jones HIM? I'm really starting to wonder.
It was literally one Jared Jones start ago that they kept him in for one more inning, during which he gave up a dinger.
Much consternation amongst fans that they didn’t pull him.
Now they do, only for the subsequent reliever to shit the bed, and so of coooourse the response is to keep him in longer.
I love this game.
Big difference--last game they let him pitch into the 7th and get to 85 pitches. Tonight, they didn't even send him out for the 6th when he was at 59 pitches.
Maybe the lesson from last time should have been 6 innings or ~75 pitches, but they overcorrected, which is what people do when they really don't know what they're doing.
There will never exist a lack of justifications…after the result is already known.
My initial post was before Ortiz blew the game for us, so no hindsight needed.
But maybe you can explain the logic of letting pitch counts fluctuate by 26! from one game to another, since you and Sheltie often seem to be on the same page but Sheltie will never explain his reasoning.
That's what I was thinking.
Welp still 11 down but 144 to go…..
Anyone hear how that was a balk by Hernandez?
You cant be doin a balk like that
Broke from the set position.
Can't win many games when the bats struggle and the relief pitching crumbles
Man, it’s tough wasting some of these starting pitching performances. 🤦♂️
Hopefully things will even out and at some point the bats wake back up, and they bang out a few wins on nights the pitching says they shouldn’t.
No offense and no bullpen. Probably not a winning formula.
So what’s the answer? Just keep doing the same things and hope for different results? Cruz has been striking out 43% of his ABs and honestly looks lost again. Williams and Taylor are on the team for defense and the every day catcher is hitting in the .180 range. Meanwhile Bart is hitting .400 with more home runs and RBI in 3 games than Davis has in 15 games and (apples and oranges you say?) Gonzales is hitting .397 and striking out 19% of the time and Perguero is hitting .344 in Indy. Something needs to happen to shake things up somehow before losing becomes the norm again or maybe it is the norm.
It is noise, at least right now. It’s April 17 and you want to shake things up. Sitting Davis and Cruz for a breather is a good idea, but starting the shuttle to Indy isn’t.
Cruz was the worst player on the Indy roster for like the first five weeks of 2022. Might just have another Adam LaRoche situation on our hands. Let him hit himself out of it and hopefully figure out how to show up ready to go in the future.
I am very glad (at least for the moment) that the Pirates did not fall into the long-term deal trap with Cruz. There seem to be some red flags flying, but I'm not convinced that he has any more of an "attitude problem" than most young players. However, I am also not convinced that he does not have an attitude problem.
I couldn’t have said it better, my friend.
I would go a couple more weeks at least before thinking about any changes to the 26-man that are not the result of injury. It's not one guy or two guys. It's pretty much a team effort at this point to not get hits. Some guys will start to pick it up, like Suwinski and hopefully Cruz. Still... the offense is about what I expected... not exceptional. They are going to need to be rock solid in all the other areas of the game: baserunning; fielding; and pitching.
Right now it’s just noise. Not enough data to shake it up too much. I would probably sit Cruz for a few games and try to get him right. Probably same with Davis and give Bart an opportunity.
This is where they miss Money Moreta
Proof that we have no idea how to predict baseball all in one game. A bullpen we thought would be a strength struggles again and Jones increasingly looking like the best arm they have.
His ability to snake out of jams was so valuable
Technically was a strike but damn i dunno how tf alika is supposed to hit that
Stepped away for a bit, why is out lord and savior no longer on the mound?
They’re conserving his inning count. Something like 5.2 innings on average rest of the way will exceed last season by 40 innings. They’ll have to skip some starts at some point
Gotcha makes sense!
With high velo arms going down like crazy, I have no problem with the approach they’re taking with Jones & Skenes. They are the future and you must protect the future.
The only trouble is, we have zero evidence limiting workloads keeps ligaments from snapping. Orioles just lost Wells to elbow stuff and he was like a 100 inning guy. Bobby Miller's innings were managed and he just went down. The answer to reducing injury is pitching worse (throwing softer and not maxing out spin) and no pitcher is going to do that.
May as well draft another one in the top 10!
We need all bats this draft. SEC and ACC bats. As many good ones who can play 1B, RF and DH as we can get.
Honestly I always want them to take the best guy possible at the top. If that’s one of the college bats or arms who are presumably in that tier (prep class sounds like one of the worst in years), I’m cool with it. I’m never a fan of the draft for need, unless it’s coinciding with a guy who is worth it at the spot.
I’m cool with drafting prep arms that look like baby deGroom
Why not give Jones one more inning? I understand the caution but 59 pitches over 5 is a pretty light load.
Call me old school, please, but I don’t get it. Fifty strikes in fifty-nine pitches and that’s it? I’m not sure I’ve seen that kind of control before. If he was in his junior year at Texas, he’d be throwing 120 every start.
College baseball, long known for its history of sound pitcher usage lolol
59 P, 50 strikes?? Srsly???
What's the caution? Just overall workload control?
1 more? I was wondering if he was going to get a complete game.
I wonder if they are planning on going with a 4 man rotation for a week or so while Gonzales is on the shelf. If that is the case, you want to limit pitch counts.
This is a good point
Skenes would kill for that leash ;)
Skenes will have that leash soon 😁
I'm glad we have BRey..
Nick Gonzales is 3-4. He's a singer shy of the cycle.
A dinger or a single?
That reminds me, is Sharts still on a pirates roster somewhere?
Pretty sure hes not :(
He’s been wiped clean
A dingee
Sinatra or Whitney Houston? Sorry.
Jones on extension watch?
Ugh
Joe is the most annoying player on the team.
Why? Versatile, good at bats.
Guess your not watching the game
Can’t, it’s blacked out for me as I live in NY. And even if he’s having a bad game, how does that make him the most annoying player on the team?
He has exceeded every expectation since coming over from Colorado. I guess that might be annoying to some.
I always have a soft spot for the guys who carve out a niche like he has.
He really is one of the better bench players in the league at this point. I keep waiting for him to turn into a pumpkin, but the clock never seems to get to midnight for him.