Wonder what they are waiting for Gonzales to do to get a call up? He has a 1058 OPS. It’s an easy move, swap him for Williams. Maybe that hot bat can bring life to the lineup.
At this point, my only thought is that his recent success is a function of being more aggressive earlier in the count, as he’s seeing about one-half pitch less per PA than last year. It’s also likely the reason why his walk rate is down considerably (and so is his strikeout rate!). This runs counter to the org’s hitting philosophy (right or wrong) of taking pitches and extending ABs. He’s probably viewed by the FO as being too rebellious, selfish perhaps, doesn’t want to sacrifice for the greater good of the team, or some stupid bullshit like that.
We may miss Imanaga unless he goes on 4 days rest on Sunday. But Jones vs. Bush and Skenes vs. Bush will be epic. Not to mention vs. Bellinger and Happ too. It's going to be good.
Missed it by 7 days - I had my money on May the 4th be with you! Good on not playing the "not until after Super Two" card. I know, they can always slide him in and out the next few months, but I think they are ready to proceed and that's that.
Exactly. JJ just pitched a 1-hitter and got 0 run support. So we've already seen this movie of "young greatness making their debut" with a dismal offense to go with it.
When Shelton was asked about taking out Perez after 73 pitches which 71% were strikes, he said because he was leaving his pitches too high, and then said it again later. It would be nice to hear Shelton once say "I made the wrong move."
When Perez was told what Shelton said, he said "I have no comment on that. I pitched good." I am paraphrasing on that.
Thank you - speaks volumes. There are qualified Managers who can handle a conversation like that, and then there are others. We are not clicking. Let's just say that Shelton has done as much as he is capable of doing, but it will take more than what he is capable of providing! 4 years of Managerial Apprenticeship and he is not where he needs to be to lead this team to the playoffs.
Perez gave up 2 straight hits on 1-2 counts. I have no problem pulling him at that point. He got hit his last start giving up 3 in the 6th. Pitched 6 innings the game previous to the last one and gave up 1 unearned run but gave up 4 runs in 4 and 3 runs in 5.2 in the previous 2. Looks like he gets hit when he starts the 3 time around the line up.
I don't have a huge problem with pulling him, but if I'm the manager and see that we have a group of players that are complacent, I want to make sure I want to recognize the one guy that is playing with a little fire. Bob Walk said he left the mound animated to the Pirates dug-out before the Pirates 4 run inning. Maybe or maybe not that had something to do with the runs that were scored. As far as the 2 singles, the first one he was kicking himself for not fielding it himself as it should have been an out. I know what you are saying about his last start, but I'm certain the Pirates acquired him to go more than 5 innings, so hopefully that's not the long-term plan.
My real complaint is for a guy that is labeled a player's manager, Shelton handled that situation like a coward. Perez shouldn't have had to hear from a reporter that Shelty through him under the bus. I've seen several times where Shelton's decision is questioned in a press conference, and the answer is always that the player didn't execute. There is more to managing than doing what your GM and analytics team tells you to do. Today was just another example of how he handled it.
Shelton is a moron, and that statement alone shows that player improvement is purely on their on initiative and not coming from coaching. Perez is back to being a quality starting pitcher precisely because he has stopped working the bottom of the zone exclusively and is working up in the zone at time. This has kept hitters offbalance and opens up his curveball again... a pitch he abandoned when he was working in the bottom of the zone exclusively.
These people running this organization truly are stupid people. 4 Random jabrones could do a better job running the Pirates' bench.
I figured after his Tuesday start last week that Skenes could start for the Pirates on Monday (two days ago). He was stretched out with his pitch count, while also pitching into the sixth inning for the first time.
I really don't know what they are trying with having him start on four days rest for the first time, while limiting his pitches, but that's besides the point I wanted to make. They had 35,563 paid attendance for the entire Angels series. They probably would have sold more tickets for Monday alone if they announced him starting ahead of time. He would have then been starting on the weekend vs the Cubs. It's beginning to feel like they are trying to keep down future costs by keeping him down (aka super two "safe" date), but they just threw away a bunch of money that they would have made this week. I know that there's a big difference, but there's also plenty of time before he starts to cost more IF he does well.
What would be even worse now is if they do call him up before the best guess super two deadline, then you would really have to wonder what is going on in that front office. They would have lost money AND super two coming up
Yeah, what they did really made no sense now. Why start him on short rest, then long rest in the majors? I'm glad he's up, but what were they thinking. That Saturday Cubs game was likely going to have a decent crowd anyway, but even his second start would have drawn extra. They complain about money/salary/budget, but they threw away 25K extra this series and gave Skenes some crazy pitching schedule.
To go on 4 days instead of 5 would bump Jones. Jones earned taking the mound on his next turn. If Skenes would have pitched Sunday in Pittsburgh instead of in Indy, he would still be starting on Saturday e cause that would be his next scheduled turn because of the off day tomorrow
I was saying he should have went on Monday and then Sunday. Shortening his time off after his longest start makes no sense, but now we are changing his time off again unnecessarily. I'm guessing they didn't think this exact plan out
3 wins out of 9 against bad teams will change the narrative for a little while. Got to take the focus off the inability to score runs, the front office and coaches.
Wanting to keep their jobs has a lot to do with some of the dubious decisions we have seen from this FO and Huntington in his final 2 years. Methinks... Nutting bestirred himself enough to mention that he expected a little more after 5 years of goofing around and handing out expensive bourbon.
For me... yes. You have no idea the price of good whiskey down here compared to the rest. I bought a bottle of Jameson a year ago or so. Had been eyeballing it in the Supermarket for a month. That is the kind of investment good whiskey is here. I think I'll invite Shelton over for dinner. Maybe he'll bring me a nice bottle of something.
I think you either see him in the Braves series (May 24/25/26) or see him in the Twins series June 7/8/9
June 12th starts summer break for Pittsburgh schools...so might be able to get a sell out vs the Reds on June 17th Monday night by announcing Sunday night intent to call him up....
Personally, whenever they do call him up, I hope he absolutely SHOVES. Long shot with some of the other rookies, but I want him to come up and (along with his hype) pitch his way into top 2 ROY voting.
That's going to be tough now, especially since there will be an innings limit. It would definitely be impressive if he did that, but tough. Angels would have been a nice team to break him in against as well.
Understanding the system, I want the control. The way their ineptness is leading to poor results, I want them to reap what they sow and lose the full year.
I'd definitely rather he stayed around seven seasons at this point, but I don't care much about the salary aspect. The Pirates have the rep to bring guys up once an assumed super two date passes, but they haven't always been wrong by doing it. In this case, I think it would be wrong.
I was fine with the slow stretch out because I wanted them to allow him to pitch the entire season, so up to and including his start last Tuesday, I was all in on the plan. He should have been with them this week for two starts. Now they are just wasting innings in the minors. I know their playoff chances are slim this season, but leaving Skenes down isn't helping.
Bae's K-rate and BABIP percentage do not auger well for the future. Neither Triolo nor Suwinsky have hit as well as Gonzales has this season. Nick G. Has always had a high BABIP percentages. It was his strikeouts that suppressed his output. I believe you would need to provide evidence showing that Nick G. will again whiff too often to be effective if he were promoted.
Fans like trades because teams in the Pirates' position trade for MLers who bring with them the risk premium provided by the trade target being a MLer. Yet: The Chris AR her fiasco. In that fiasco, the Pirates traded youth for a lower risk veteran. Meadows and Baz have been hampered by injuries. Glasnow is one of the best pitchers in the Majors. I do not recall many Pirates' fans complaining about that trade when it was made. Now, though, the Archer trade appears to have been devastating and revealed a front office that was grasping at straws.
If the Pirates want to compete for WS championships, the organization needs to build through the draft, internationally and development. It's working with the pitchers but failing with the position players.
I feel like this is a bit of a loaded response, but, of course Suwinski and Triolo haven't hit as well. They're in the majors. Nicky G has been a high BABIP guy, but he's also 65 pts higher than last year. Tree was always a high BABIP guy, and the BABIP gods came for him this year. Tree was a pretty consistent 120 wRC+ hitter, even with hamate surgery in early 2023 that suppresses power. Again, all for bringing him up, I'm just not going to get my hopes up. I believe it was a week or so ago Anthony wrote/spoke about how Gonzales is still struggling with non-fastballs.
As for trades. I mean, we can't really still show reluctance to trade because of Archer. We're far past that by now. Plus, you can't say they shouldn't trade because of Archer fiasco, while overlooking the fiasco that is their hitter development.
IMO, I don’t think the statcast data for AAA is a truly complete data set. A qualitative reconciliation of the data is perplexing and it doesn’t pass the smell test. I also noticed in some of the game logs that there were battled ball events cataloged as ‘undefined’. Not sure the minor league data is there quite yet to be making these types of conclusions.
I didn't buy Anthony's explanation at the time. I'd need to look at it again.
It wasn't just the fact that the Archer trade didn't work out. The point I was making, albeit indirectly, was that the Pirates traded top prospects that the team mishandled for an inadequate return who collapsed afterwards. The team made that trade in order to barely exceed the McClatchy Line. So, will the Pirates need to trade Davis, Bae and Chandler for another team's problem? How about Preister, Gonzales and Bae? I'd counsel patience, although I have strong doubts about the hitting coaches in the system.
The organization has chosen a path. Defecting from that path is at least as risky as staying the course. It may be more risky since the Pirates would need to move two or more prospects to acquire another team's problem. Besides that point, it's not as though making trades is akin to going to Home Depot to purchase the tools the team needs. The analogy I would use is going to a swap meet in which the buyer is at great risk. Since fans want the team to make a trade for short-term benefits, the Pirates would be making that trade from a position of weakness.
Cause also, why are we looking at Archer as the prime example? Why not the other side of the coin? Players the Pirates traded away? Marte, Musgrove, Taillon, etc.? What have the Pirates gotten in return? An elite closer for 3 years and waiting. Go find a Connor Joe, but better.
Right. There is some quality out there, they just need to look harder and be prepared to make difficult decisions. I wonder if they love their own players/prospects too much to the extent that moving them for potentially better talent that helps NOW means some sort of admission of failure.
Why are we trading for another team's problem? Trading for a good player, like Sean Murphy.
I think there's a couple things to keep in mind. First as you partly mentioned, the Archer trade was a perfect disaster. Archer was on the decline, so bad timing, but there still the modicum of belief in Uncle Ray. Hindsight is 20/20, and we can see a lot of it had to do with their horse blinders on an outdated pitching philosophy. Coupled with a prospect like Glasnow, who lets be honest, wasn't going to see success in Pittsburgh because of said outdated philosophy. It was literally holding him back.
And they have a chosen path, and trading won't deflect from said path. Using resources they have for assets they don't.
I was one of the few who slagged the Archer trade when it was made that day, as soon as learned of it and could find my way to PP.
If the player the Pirates recieve in the trade fanscwant to make wasn't a problem, why is the other team trading him? Teams hesitate to trade for players who the trading team considers failed prospects. Why would they want the Pirates' problem players.
I suspect the Rays FO whopped it up when making the Archer trade. There was a time when Dolt Littlefield made his top MiLers available in the Rule 5 draft. The first five teams took Pirates' players while the gallery snickered in the background. The Archer trade was about as stupid as Littlefield's Rule 5 disaster. The Pirates lost Jose Batista in that draft. It was only dumb luck they got him back.
Each of the Pirates traded for prospects were problems at the time they were traded. Taillon: Injury history. Marte: Age. Musgrove: Underwhelming performance across his ML career. Not one of the three brought back a top prospect. The return was for lottery tickets.
Even though I'm not high on Jazz, maybe a Bae, Peguero, Ashcraft and throw in Ro, for Jazz and Bell. Send Rowdy out to pasture bring NickyG up to play 2nd, option Triolo to find his bat and get some time at short. Hopefully Bell does his thing for a couple months and gets hot.
Another idea is to go after Vlad Jr. I doubt the Jays are ready to move on just yet.
Bell has been ice cold after the first few games. I really don’t think he would be much better than Rowdy. Would rather see if Lamb could do what he is currently doing in the show.
I agree but it would cheapen the prospects going back. I wouldn't expect much from Bell but he has been pretty consistent at being bad for half a season and good for the other half lol.
How about Michael Kennedy or Shim (if they will take him) to the As for Brent Rooker. Seems a no-brainer for both teams and right in line with the Pirates budget.
Trades would be welcomed but that’s your opinion about what Gonzales and Bae could do and not a fact. Opinions are like …you know what…everybody has one. They might be even worse, but no one will know unless they’re given a chance and believing it doesn’t make it so.
Imma say it before NMR comes in and starts ruffling feathers, but, we've literally been on this road for years now. "Won't know unless they're given a chance" is what was said about every prospect/player that we're now saying needs to be optioned/released/traded, etc. It's a circle, and we keep just revisiting the same exact situation.
"Play Castillo, Madris, Park, and Castro. It can't get worse."
"Play Mitchell, CSN, Bae, and Marcano. It can't get worse"
"Play Triolo, Davis, and Alika. It can't get worse."
They need to acquire hitters. Real hitters. Then Nicky G, Peggy, and whomever can earn their way (though yes, Nicky G probably does deserve a chance) rather than, "It can't get worse".
Pretty much all the guys you mention have some kind of upside, but watching the ghost of Cutch and the end of Tellez's short lived, one tool career is crazy, IMO.
They all do, but outside of Jacks one hot/cold year, it's mostly just been a recycling/carousel of intriguing prospects with upside.
When there is a hitting prospect that has their Jared Jones moment, then I'll be interested. Till then, an ~80 wRC+ Cutch is sadly still a better option than what's likely to come up from Indy. Cept for Tellez, he can be jettisoned for literally anyone.
How is a 20% below par, DH only guy who's obviously not a good influence on the team hitting dynamic and totally messes up positional flexibility better than than utilising a prospect like Bae or NGon who's raking in AAA?
Maybe so, but BC won't find out until he tries the guys at AAA. And the Cutch/Tellez situation is ridiculous as neither have a hope in hell of providing any more than maybe one WAR for the rest of the season. They're making a real cluster fuck of positional flexibility too.
I mean, they've BEEN trying the guys from Triple-A. Triolo, Davis, Alika, and to a lesser degree Suwinski are just the Triple-A guys getting a shot first.
Jared Jones current leader for rookie of the year ?
What is the new rule about top rookies that start the season in the majors?
Is it an extra draft pick?
I would have to say that he is the front runner. That said, no Pirates player has ever won the award.... I can't even guess why....
If Jones wins ROY, then Pirates get an extra pick at back end of Round 1.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
Wonder what they are waiting for Gonzales to do to get a call up? He has a 1058 OPS. It’s an easy move, swap him for Williams. Maybe that hot bat can bring life to the lineup.
At this point, my only thought is that his recent success is a function of being more aggressive earlier in the count, as he’s seeing about one-half pitch less per PA than last year. It’s also likely the reason why his walk rate is down considerably (and so is his strikeout rate!). This runs counter to the org’s hitting philosophy (right or wrong) of taking pitches and extending ABs. He’s probably viewed by the FO as being too rebellious, selfish perhaps, doesn’t want to sacrifice for the greater good of the team, or some stupid bullshit like that.
I've had this thought.
Funny, remember the guy they got from the Yankees for JT? The one with no power? He has two hits with the Pirates, both dingerz.
Friday - Jones
Saturday - Skenes
Sunday - Keller
LFG
What are the chances Skenes can sneak Nick G into his luggage?
Or that whoever goes down can sneak Tellez into his?
Still no Double-A K's for Siani. It's the little things
Small sample size only counts when they are struggling i believe
And Ashcraft is finding his groove.
I didn't catch any velos in the fifth, but 5 scoreless innings on 80 pitches is huge for him
Please God let Skenes and Jones both pitch vs Braves and have my first trip to PNC make this soon to be 60 year old feel like a kid again!
LETS GO BUCS!!!!
Wonder if they will go to 6-man rotation with Skenes’ arrival or stick with 5
The P-G is reporting that they plan to go with a six-man rotation initially.
Might behoove them to go with 6 initially to keep the innings count down for Jones & Skenes.
QP is going down is my guess.
We may miss Imanaga unless he goes on 4 days rest on Sunday. But Jones vs. Bush and Skenes vs. Bush will be epic. Not to mention vs. Bellinger and Happ too. It's going to be good.
Bellinger is playing with 2 broken ribs and went 3 for 4 with a HR yesterday. I love that guy... such a shame he is playing for the Cubs.
Extremely overrated beisbol player
Just heard a familiar voice on the Ranger broadcast. Good 'ole Robbie landed on his feet quick.
So, call Skenes up, send the rest of the team down. Except JJ.
And Joe.
Skenes up Saturday!
“Can he get on base?”
Missed it by 7 days - I had my money on May the 4th be with you! Good on not playing the "not until after Super Two" card. I know, they can always slide him in and out the next few months, but I think they are ready to proceed and that's that.
Just sniped tickets
I guess 3 wins 6 losses to 3 of the other bottom feeders in MLB, will make moves necessary. I'm just glad they're bringing him up.
Problem being, the pitching isn't what needs fixed lol
Which leads me into "next phase" discussion... Debating if I should write an article on it or just get the boards going
Exactly. JJ just pitched a 1-hitter and got 0 run support. So we've already seen this movie of "young greatness making their debut" with a dismal offense to go with it.
Rumor has it that Skenes can hit.
He has too much usable power. Doesn't fit Ben's profile for a hitter.
Is Saturday QPs slot in the rotation?
It's Skenes
But, I think Falter. Jones Friday
I see falter heading to the pen for the long guy/ piggy back guy/ spot start to give one of the other starters a rest guy. Can Nicolas be optioned?
They're already hyping it lol
When Shelton was asked about taking out Perez after 73 pitches which 71% were strikes, he said because he was leaving his pitches too high, and then said it again later. It would be nice to hear Shelton once say "I made the wrong move."
When Perez was told what Shelton said, he said "I have no comment on that. I pitched good." I am paraphrasing on that.
Thank you - speaks volumes. There are qualified Managers who can handle a conversation like that, and then there are others. We are not clicking. Let's just say that Shelton has done as much as he is capable of doing, but it will take more than what he is capable of providing! 4 years of Managerial Apprenticeship and he is not where he needs to be to lead this team to the playoffs.
Perez gave up 2 straight hits on 1-2 counts. I have no problem pulling him at that point. He got hit his last start giving up 3 in the 6th. Pitched 6 innings the game previous to the last one and gave up 1 unearned run but gave up 4 runs in 4 and 3 runs in 5.2 in the previous 2. Looks like he gets hit when he starts the 3 time around the line up.
I don't have a huge problem with pulling him, but if I'm the manager and see that we have a group of players that are complacent, I want to make sure I want to recognize the one guy that is playing with a little fire. Bob Walk said he left the mound animated to the Pirates dug-out before the Pirates 4 run inning. Maybe or maybe not that had something to do with the runs that were scored. As far as the 2 singles, the first one he was kicking himself for not fielding it himself as it should have been an out. I know what you are saying about his last start, but I'm certain the Pirates acquired him to go more than 5 innings, so hopefully that's not the long-term plan.
My real complaint is for a guy that is labeled a player's manager, Shelton handled that situation like a coward. Perez shouldn't have had to hear from a reporter that Shelty through him under the bus. I've seen several times where Shelton's decision is questioned in a press conference, and the answer is always that the player didn't execute. There is more to managing than doing what your GM and analytics team tells you to do. Today was just another example of how he handled it.
Shelton is a moron, and that statement alone shows that player improvement is purely on their on initiative and not coming from coaching. Perez is back to being a quality starting pitcher precisely because he has stopped working the bottom of the zone exclusively and is working up in the zone at time. This has kept hitters offbalance and opens up his curveball again... a pitch he abandoned when he was working in the bottom of the zone exclusively.
These people running this organization truly are stupid people. 4 Random jabrones could do a better job running the Pirates' bench.
I figured after his Tuesday start last week that Skenes could start for the Pirates on Monday (two days ago). He was stretched out with his pitch count, while also pitching into the sixth inning for the first time.
I really don't know what they are trying with having him start on four days rest for the first time, while limiting his pitches, but that's besides the point I wanted to make. They had 35,563 paid attendance for the entire Angels series. They probably would have sold more tickets for Monday alone if they announced him starting ahead of time. He would have then been starting on the weekend vs the Cubs. It's beginning to feel like they are trying to keep down future costs by keeping him down (aka super two "safe" date), but they just threw away a bunch of money that they would have made this week. I know that there's a big difference, but there's also plenty of time before he starts to cost more IF he does well.
What would be even worse now is if they do call him up before the best guess super two deadline, then you would really have to wonder what is going on in that front office. They would have lost money AND super two coming up
Here he comes
Yeah, what they did really made no sense now. Why start him on short rest, then long rest in the majors? I'm glad he's up, but what were they thinking. That Saturday Cubs game was likely going to have a decent crowd anyway, but even his second start would have drawn extra. They complain about money/salary/budget, but they threw away 25K extra this series and gave Skenes some crazy pitching schedule.
To go on 4 days instead of 5 would bump Jones. Jones earned taking the mound on his next turn. If Skenes would have pitched Sunday in Pittsburgh instead of in Indy, he would still be starting on Saturday e cause that would be his next scheduled turn because of the off day tomorrow
I was saying he should have went on Monday and then Sunday. Shortening his time off after his longest start makes no sense, but now we are changing his time off again unnecessarily. I'm guessing they didn't think this exact plan out
3 wins out of 9 against bad teams will change the narrative for a little while. Got to take the focus off the inability to score runs, the front office and coaches.
I maintain fans are too generous when blindly assuming the decisions they make are for service time/monetary reasons.
Wanting to keep their jobs has a lot to do with some of the dubious decisions we have seen from this FO and Huntington in his final 2 years. Methinks... Nutting bestirred himself enough to mention that he expected a little more after 5 years of goofing around and handing out expensive bourbon.
Is Jim Beam expensive?
For me... yes. You have no idea the price of good whiskey down here compared to the rest. I bought a bottle of Jameson a year ago or so. Had been eyeballing it in the Supermarket for a month. That is the kind of investment good whiskey is here. I think I'll invite Shelton over for dinner. Maybe he'll bring me a nice bottle of something.
The FO seems to be panicking. That includes Williams. The team has been a lazy dog after its great start.
I think you either see him in the Braves series (May 24/25/26) or see him in the Twins series June 7/8/9
June 12th starts summer break for Pittsburgh schools...so might be able to get a sell out vs the Reds on June 17th Monday night by announcing Sunday night intent to call him up....
Well since I will be at all of the games in Indy from May 27th to June 5th, I vote B.
They want to stagger his arb years and those of Jones. On Nutting's budget, they don't have much choice. Can't blame Cherington for this one.
really?
Personally, whenever they do call him up, I hope he absolutely SHOVES. Long shot with some of the other rookies, but I want him to come up and (along with his hype) pitch his way into top 2 ROY voting.
That's going to be tough now, especially since there will be an innings limit. It would definitely be impressive if he did that, but tough. Angels would have been a nice team to break him in against as well.
Understanding the system, I want the control. The way their ineptness is leading to poor results, I want them to reap what they sow and lose the full year.
I'd definitely rather he stayed around seven seasons at this point, but I don't care much about the salary aspect. The Pirates have the rep to bring guys up once an assumed super two date passes, but they haven't always been wrong by doing it. In this case, I think it would be wrong.
I was fine with the slow stretch out because I wanted them to allow him to pitch the entire season, so up to and including his start last Tuesday, I was all in on the plan. He should have been with them this week for two starts. Now they are just wasting innings in the minors. I know their playoff chances are slim this season, but leaving Skenes down isn't helping.
He wouldn’t stay around for the full 7 anyway would he? What are the odds on that, 50-1?
They aren't trading him in the middle of a three-year title run
I'll say it again.... Tellez and Cutch need to be released or moved to the IL while Triolo and Suwinski for NGon and Bae is about two weeks overdue.
The crying shame with all this is that the pitching is pretty good, but the hitters and hitting coaches are failing on a daily basis.
Trades. They need to make trades. Chances are highly likely they could do all that, but Nicky G and Bae will just be reincarnated Tree and Suwinski.
Bae's K-rate and BABIP percentage do not auger well for the future. Neither Triolo nor Suwinsky have hit as well as Gonzales has this season. Nick G. Has always had a high BABIP percentages. It was his strikeouts that suppressed his output. I believe you would need to provide evidence showing that Nick G. will again whiff too often to be effective if he were promoted.
Fans like trades because teams in the Pirates' position trade for MLers who bring with them the risk premium provided by the trade target being a MLer. Yet: The Chris AR her fiasco. In that fiasco, the Pirates traded youth for a lower risk veteran. Meadows and Baz have been hampered by injuries. Glasnow is one of the best pitchers in the Majors. I do not recall many Pirates' fans complaining about that trade when it was made. Now, though, the Archer trade appears to have been devastating and revealed a front office that was grasping at straws.
If the Pirates want to compete for WS championships, the organization needs to build through the draft, internationally and development. It's working with the pitchers but failing with the position players.
I feel like this is a bit of a loaded response, but, of course Suwinski and Triolo haven't hit as well. They're in the majors. Nicky G has been a high BABIP guy, but he's also 65 pts higher than last year. Tree was always a high BABIP guy, and the BABIP gods came for him this year. Tree was a pretty consistent 120 wRC+ hitter, even with hamate surgery in early 2023 that suppresses power. Again, all for bringing him up, I'm just not going to get my hopes up. I believe it was a week or so ago Anthony wrote/spoke about how Gonzales is still struggling with non-fastballs.
As for trades. I mean, we can't really still show reluctance to trade because of Archer. We're far past that by now. Plus, you can't say they shouldn't trade because of Archer fiasco, while overlooking the fiasco that is their hitter development.
IMO, I don’t think the statcast data for AAA is a truly complete data set. A qualitative reconciliation of the data is perplexing and it doesn’t pass the smell test. I also noticed in some of the game logs that there were battled ball events cataloged as ‘undefined’. Not sure the minor league data is there quite yet to be making these types of conclusions.
I didn't buy Anthony's explanation at the time. I'd need to look at it again.
It wasn't just the fact that the Archer trade didn't work out. The point I was making, albeit indirectly, was that the Pirates traded top prospects that the team mishandled for an inadequate return who collapsed afterwards. The team made that trade in order to barely exceed the McClatchy Line. So, will the Pirates need to trade Davis, Bae and Chandler for another team's problem? How about Preister, Gonzales and Bae? I'd counsel patience, although I have strong doubts about the hitting coaches in the system.
The organization has chosen a path. Defecting from that path is at least as risky as staying the course. It may be more risky since the Pirates would need to move two or more prospects to acquire another team's problem. Besides that point, it's not as though making trades is akin to going to Home Depot to purchase the tools the team needs. The analogy I would use is going to a swap meet in which the buyer is at great risk. Since fans want the team to make a trade for short-term benefits, the Pirates would be making that trade from a position of weakness.
Something is off about the minor league Statcast data…see my response below to Jeff.
Cause also, why are we looking at Archer as the prime example? Why not the other side of the coin? Players the Pirates traded away? Marte, Musgrove, Taillon, etc.? What have the Pirates gotten in return? An elite closer for 3 years and waiting. Go find a Connor Joe, but better.
Right. There is some quality out there, they just need to look harder and be prepared to make difficult decisions. I wonder if they love their own players/prospects too much to the extent that moving them for potentially better talent that helps NOW means some sort of admission of failure.
Why are we trading for another team's problem? Trading for a good player, like Sean Murphy.
I think there's a couple things to keep in mind. First as you partly mentioned, the Archer trade was a perfect disaster. Archer was on the decline, so bad timing, but there still the modicum of belief in Uncle Ray. Hindsight is 20/20, and we can see a lot of it had to do with their horse blinders on an outdated pitching philosophy. Coupled with a prospect like Glasnow, who lets be honest, wasn't going to see success in Pittsburgh because of said outdated philosophy. It was literally holding him back.
And they have a chosen path, and trading won't deflect from said path. Using resources they have for assets they don't.
I was one of the few who slagged the Archer trade when it was made that day, as soon as learned of it and could find my way to PP.
If the player the Pirates recieve in the trade fanscwant to make wasn't a problem, why is the other team trading him? Teams hesitate to trade for players who the trading team considers failed prospects. Why would they want the Pirates' problem players.
I suspect the Rays FO whopped it up when making the Archer trade. There was a time when Dolt Littlefield made his top MiLers available in the Rule 5 draft. The first five teams took Pirates' players while the gallery snickered in the background. The Archer trade was about as stupid as Littlefield's Rule 5 disaster. The Pirates lost Jose Batista in that draft. It was only dumb luck they got him back.
Each of the Pirates traded for prospects were problems at the time they were traded. Taillon: Injury history. Marte: Age. Musgrove: Underwhelming performance across his ML career. Not one of the three brought back a top prospect. The return was for lottery tickets.
There's several players out there like you're saying, they aren't great but clear upgrades that wouldn't break the prospect bank.
Even though I'm not high on Jazz, maybe a Bae, Peguero, Ashcraft and throw in Ro, for Jazz and Bell. Send Rowdy out to pasture bring NickyG up to play 2nd, option Triolo to find his bat and get some time at short. Hopefully Bell does his thing for a couple months and gets hot.
Another idea is to go after Vlad Jr. I doubt the Jays are ready to move on just yet.
Bell has been ice cold after the first few games. I really don’t think he would be much better than Rowdy. Would rather see if Lamb could do what he is currently doing in the show.
I agree but it would cheapen the prospects going back. I wouldn't expect much from Bell but he has been pretty consistent at being bad for half a season and good for the other half lol.
How about Michael Kennedy or Shim (if they will take him) to the As for Brent Rooker. Seems a no-brainer for both teams and right in line with the Pirates budget.
Trades would be welcomed but that’s your opinion about what Gonzales and Bae could do and not a fact. Opinions are like …you know what…everybody has one. They might be even worse, but no one will know unless they’re given a chance and believing it doesn’t make it so.
Imma say it before NMR comes in and starts ruffling feathers, but, we've literally been on this road for years now. "Won't know unless they're given a chance" is what was said about every prospect/player that we're now saying needs to be optioned/released/traded, etc. It's a circle, and we keep just revisiting the same exact situation.
"Play Castillo, Madris, Park, and Castro. It can't get worse."
"Play Mitchell, CSN, Bae, and Marcano. It can't get worse"
"Play Triolo, Davis, and Alika. It can't get worse."
They need to acquire hitters. Real hitters. Then Nicky G, Peggy, and whomever can earn their way (though yes, Nicky G probably does deserve a chance) rather than, "It can't get worse".
That guy sounds like he knows what he's talkin' about! ;)
It's the shiny head
shave that beard into a stache and we're talkin.
Pssst... never ruffled my feathers when you said things... like... play good players... and stop using the MLB team like a JV tryout squad.
Pretty much all the guys you mention have some kind of upside, but watching the ghost of Cutch and the end of Tellez's short lived, one tool career is crazy, IMO.
They all do, but outside of Jacks one hot/cold year, it's mostly just been a recycling/carousel of intriguing prospects with upside.
When there is a hitting prospect that has their Jared Jones moment, then I'll be interested. Till then, an ~80 wRC+ Cutch is sadly still a better option than what's likely to come up from Indy. Cept for Tellez, he can be jettisoned for literally anyone.
How is a 20% below par, DH only guy who's obviously not a good influence on the team hitting dynamic and totally messes up positional flexibility better than than utilising a prospect like Bae or NGon who's raking in AAA?
Maybe so, but BC won't find out until he tries the guys at AAA. And the Cutch/Tellez situation is ridiculous as neither have a hope in hell of providing any more than maybe one WAR for the rest of the season. They're making a real cluster fuck of positional flexibility too.
I mean, they've BEEN trying the guys from Triple-A. Triolo, Davis, Alika, and to a lesser degree Suwinski are just the Triple-A guys getting a shot first.
3-3 vs two of the worst teams in the league...well done, boys! Carry on!
At home too.