Perspective. One win in his last 14 starts, is that even possible???
“Skenes gave up five hits, walked none and struck out six. The 23-year-old right-hander has now won only one game in his last 14 starts. Skenes has thrown more than 78 pitches only once in his last four starts as the Pirates have been conservative with their ace pitcher. He’ll take a 2.01 ERA and 131/30 K/BB ratio in 121 innings into the All-Star break”
You think Skenes is more or less likely to sign his next contract with a team who cares about pitcher wins? If I worked for a team and I was a truly pathetic science nerd who'd never known woman and had no prospects at a family but liked baseball I would create a stat called SKENES based on how many wins-losses a SP should expect given their whip/fip/xfip whatever and I would begin my rebuild trying to max that stat as a team on offense and then sell that to a bunch of FA pitchers. That'd be my entire rebuild strategy.
No, I didn't. I simply took it a step further and said pitcher wins should be the most important stat. Especially when you have top end SPs.
When your team is so bad that they're making Skenes look worse than Quinn Priester they'll never sign a frontline starter to a second contract. So spend on the offense to make your drafted and developed SPs look amazing if that's the one thing you know how to draft and develop. But I'm not a moron and our GM is.
Pitcher wins are irrelevant. Except in the extreme case like Skenes, and Keller too, where you show a superb era in over 100 IP but a pitiful amount of run support.
They're irrelevant for fans looking to evaluate how good a pitcher has been but they're a meaningful metric to build your team around when you're good at pitching development and pitiful at everything else if you'd like to retain a few of the pitchers you develop.
They're ruining him. Listening to him talk on the postgame, he's a wreck. Having to remind himself how good he is. No talk of winning games. Pathetic. (not blaming Skenes here; just the soul crushing org these jokers have created)
I blame all of these trust the process nerd poindexters who laugh at pitcher wins.
Meanwhile- Quinn Priester, the guy we gave away for a guy not good enough to beat out Frazier-Pham- Canario- Triolo continues to excel for Division rival Milwaukee
“ The 24-year-old right-hander has now won six games in his last eight appearances. Priester has a 3.55 ERA and 70/32 K/BB ratio in 88 2/3 innings this year. He won’t pitch again before the All-Star break”
I'm not lookin in the rear view mirror at all over Priester. We had/have a pitching surplus and he sucked here, something north of a 6 era. Plenty of chances, he has to hit his spots perfectly to have success. If he's learned a new pitch or two, good for him.
Yeah but the Pirates got the return of Tucupita Marcano, except 2 years older, slower, less motivated, injured, and less defensively capable... . So... there's that.
And you guys want Cherington to trade Bednar, Santana, and Keller? How could you? He'll get no one of any promise or use for any of those guys.
And then there is the "trade the starting pitching surplus" meme. He has traded the pitching surplus. Heaney and Ferguson are all that remain to be traded. He traded 2 pitching prospects and a major-league starter for a wrist injury, and he traded another major-league starter for yet another AAAA utility player. That was your surplus. Happy?
If you look at all the SPs only Falter has a winning record despite a lot of nice lines aside from Heaney's. Falter and Heaney are getting propped up by teams who don't hit LHP well.
Skenes was great again but to be hypercritical, he didn’t do the “shut the opponent down the half inning after taking the lead” thing. But it feels wrong to even point that out.
Ok. Not liking Kelly pinch hitting Frazier for Davis twice in late game situations recently. Let the dude take a hack and grow in his experience as a big league hitter. Adam Frazier? C’mon.
As an interim mgr, Kelly is trying to win the game. He's trying to win the job going forward. I'd PH Frazier too, a very good contact hitter vs that closer. If you're on a 4 year contract like Shelty, then sure you give the kids a few more opportunities trying to develop them for the future. Interim managers are in a tough spot.
We’re 19 games under.500. Is Frazier actually giving us much of an advantage in that situation? Let Davis bat. I think he had just as good a chance as Frazier. Definitely has more power. Let him hit.
This lineup is worse than 1985. Didn’t think I’d have to say that about any Pirates team but here we are.
Cheringtons gotta Cherington.
This stat really puts it into
Perspective. One win in his last 14 starts, is that even possible???
“Skenes gave up five hits, walked none and struck out six. The 23-year-old right-hander has now won only one game in his last 14 starts. Skenes has thrown more than 78 pitches only once in his last four starts as the Pirates have been conservative with their ace pitcher. He’ll take a 2.01 ERA and 131/30 K/BB ratio in 121 innings into the All-Star break”
This. This should even make sense to Nutting to can BC.
You think Skenes is more or less likely to sign his next contract with a team who cares about pitcher wins? If I worked for a team and I was a truly pathetic science nerd who'd never known woman and had no prospects at a family but liked baseball I would create a stat called SKENES based on how many wins-losses a SP should expect given their whip/fip/xfip whatever and I would begin my rebuild trying to max that stat as a team on offense and then sell that to a bunch of FA pitchers. That'd be my entire rebuild strategy.
You missed the point, the pitcher with the best ERA in the NL has one win due to a pathetic 29th or 30th offense in MLB.
No, I didn't. I simply took it a step further and said pitcher wins should be the most important stat. Especially when you have top end SPs.
When your team is so bad that they're making Skenes look worse than Quinn Priester they'll never sign a frontline starter to a second contract. So spend on the offense to make your drafted and developed SPs look amazing if that's the one thing you know how to draft and develop. But I'm not a moron and our GM is.
Pitcher wins are irrelevant. Except in the extreme case like Skenes, and Keller too, where you show a superb era in over 100 IP but a pitiful amount of run support.
They're irrelevant for fans looking to evaluate how good a pitcher has been but they're a meaningful metric to build your team around when you're good at pitching development and pitiful at everything else if you'd like to retain a few of the pitchers you develop.
They're ruining him. Listening to him talk on the postgame, he's a wreck. Having to remind himself how good he is. No talk of winning games. Pathetic. (not blaming Skenes here; just the soul crushing org these jokers have created)
I blame all of these trust the process nerd poindexters who laugh at pitcher wins.
Meanwhile- Quinn Priester, the guy we gave away for a guy not good enough to beat out Frazier-Pham- Canario- Triolo continues to excel for Division rival Milwaukee
“ The 24-year-old right-hander has now won six games in his last eight appearances. Priester has a 3.55 ERA and 70/32 K/BB ratio in 88 2/3 innings this year. He won’t pitch again before the All-Star break”
I'm not lookin in the rear view mirror at all over Priester. We had/have a pitching surplus and he sucked here, something north of a 6 era. Plenty of chances, he has to hit his spots perfectly to have success. If he's learned a new pitch or two, good for him.
Yeah but the Pirates got the return of Tucupita Marcano, except 2 years older, slower, less motivated, injured, and less defensively capable... . So... there's that.
And you guys want Cherington to trade Bednar, Santana, and Keller? How could you? He'll get no one of any promise or use for any of those guys.
And then there is the "trade the starting pitching surplus" meme. He has traded the pitching surplus. Heaney and Ferguson are all that remain to be traded. He traded 2 pitching prospects and a major-league starter for a wrist injury, and he traded another major-league starter for yet another AAAA utility player. That was your surplus. Happy?
No Pirates fans are happy, I assure you.
Sure but Quinn would be 1-5 with this roster behind him.
If you look at all the SPs only Falter has a winning record despite a lot of nice lines aside from Heaney's. Falter and Heaney are getting propped up by teams who don't hit LHP well.
Following this team is like getting punched in the face on a daily basis and keep asking for more.
I think punched in the nuts more like it
Yeah that would work as well.
Cherington and Nutting are such born losers they've built a system that teaches a guy like Skenes to become a loser. Infectious losers.
They're real pros at what they do.
If I'm drafted by the Pirates I go play indie ball for a year and re-enter the draft the following year despite the risk.
The most predictable result ever. Skenes loses 2-1 again.
Skenes was great again but to be hypercritical, he didn’t do the “shut the opponent down the half inning after taking the lead” thing. But it feels wrong to even point that out.
son of a gun
Another episode of Ground Hog Day.
And somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout,
But there is no joy in Pittsburgh—IKF has struck out.
Nicely played all night. Took me a couple before I recognized what you were up to. Made me laugh multiple times.
Trying to keep in entertaining in the miasma of despair that this team induces.
Me too. I'm getting that book from the library when I go to work Monday.
Every Skenes start is a nightmare referendum on the Little Debbie roster BC has put together.
I’d rather have Jack pinch hit here and Frazier pinch run, though with the SB I might now flip that.
Ok. Not liking Kelly pinch hitting Frazier for Davis twice in late game situations recently. Let the dude take a hack and grow in his experience as a big league hitter. Adam Frazier? C’mon.
As an interim mgr, Kelly is trying to win the game. He's trying to win the job going forward. I'd PH Frazier too, a very good contact hitter vs that closer. If you're on a 4 year contract like Shelty, then sure you give the kids a few more opportunities trying to develop them for the future. Interim managers are in a tough spot.
We’re 19 games under.500. Is Frazier actually giving us much of an advantage in that situation? Let Davis bat. I think he had just as good a chance as Frazier. Definitely has more power. Let him hit.
That closer has 102 FB which has been Hank's kryptonite. It's a tough AB for any hitter, the odds were better with Frazier.
You absolutely know Kelly is going to be judged on his record which is within a couple games of .500, not the 16 games under he inherited.
Well just disagree on this.
But Wrist let drive a single, to the wonderment of all,
Duran is the best reliever in the game., no?
They thought, "If only Pham could but get a whack at that—
Really nice outing for Mlod at least.