Hmm. Turns out you can buy yourself a playoff team. The amount of money Dodgers spent on injured pitchers alone dwarfs many other payrolls. Even the Mets can overcome massive inefficiency and spend their way in.
To be fair, there is correlation between payroll and making the playoffs. It’s not an excuse for the Pirates, but the last time the Dodgers had a losing season was 2010 and the Yankees was 1992. Having to constantly turn your roster over, despite some great teams, is probably why the Brewers, A’s, Rays and Guards haven’t managed to win a World Series despite their recent successes this millennia.
Teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Cleveland, and TB are trying to win every year. The Pirates management take years off under the excuse that they are in a rebuild. The Pirates have had two decent years in 2023 and 2024, but finished 10 under .500 both years.
Oh, I think they're trying. When Huntington took over, he slowly rebuilt it. But when he was done, he was trying every year. He just made some bad judgement calls at the end.
Same with Cherington, he's done building and now he's trying to win. He's just not very good at it. Maybe that changes this off-season, and he becomes good.
These dudes are highly competitive humans. You wouldn't even get into an MLB front office without being a highly competitive, let alone leading a franchise.
GM working for Pittsburgh and Bob Nutting has to be ahead of the rest of the GMs and also catch some breaks. Not exactly an easy job.
In the end, sometimes the person making $50k can come out better with more effective management of resources. Sometimes people who win the lotto can’t effectively manage those winnings either, as we’ve seen. Ideally, the Pirates can parlay the Skenes bonanza into transformative revenue.
Met a dude at an art fair my wife was slanging her wares at. He was from the capital of SC but man was he a Pittsburgh fan. Dude remembered Chico Lind and Belliard. Slyke was his favorite. Felt good to go all Springsteen on the Buccos with someone face to face. Hope everyone has a fun day.
The silence is deafening! Surprised that the calls for the firing of Derek Shelton have all but disappeared. Maybe that's their strategy - don't answer any direct questions, then stay as quiet as possible, and maybe they'll just go away!
That hope of fresh leadership kind of died when Cherington said that he recommended to Nutting that Shelton be retained and implied Nutting agreed. If there is a silver-lining, it's that surely Cherington is aware enough to know that his job and reputation are on the line in '25 and that he wants to stick with Shelton shows that it goes beyond them being buddies. Either he's right or they both should be gone after '25. Given the difficulty Cherington seems to have in judging talent, I wouldn't bet on it working out well for him.
There might be a sliver of hope that Nutting will still act (I think it was around this week in '19 when he fired Huntington) but with his evident lack of concern about wins and losses, I don't see that happening. I'd just like to know that he consulted with others besides Cherington when making the decision about Shelton.
I'm not sure what my thing is, but the 28th only adds a bit to my sliver of hope. Actually, I'm working on coming around to the idea of another Cherington/Shelton year so that I can get excited about '25 despite my misgivings.
Best hope there is to glass half full it, and hope that Sarah Gelles and the new hires help Ben overcome his self destructive tendencies towards multi-positional no bat players. Let’s see some Trader Jerry and rip up the half the roster! It doesn’t seem to work for Dipoto, but at least they’d be interesting for once.
Tough to fire someone at this point too. Ideally you do it as early as possible so whomever you hire can hit the ground running, as they are already going to be behind. This is all doubly true when you have Skenes and want to try to be competitive next year.
One reason to wait, which I don't think is what's happening, is to have access to coaches and/or FO personnel from the teams that are still in the postseason.
Instead, I think Nutting bought into the other changes (three significant changes to the FO and another three changes to the coaching staff) being enough, and they may be. We'll see.
But, you can still have a lot of your work done by this point. So let’s say you want to interview Craig Albernaz for the manager spot. You can have all your other interviews done, and then be ready to move right after the World Series. At this point, if they decide to move, you aren’t looking at having a GM in place until mid-November, and a manager in place until early December. Two to three weeks doesn’t sound like much, but when you’re talking about getting a new management team acclimated, every little bit helps. You figured, in place management teams are already receiving their budgets, constructing off season free agent lists, trade targets, etc.
The Dodgers gave up 2 highly rated prospects to get Jack Flaherty from the Tigers, but he started 10 games down the stretch, 6-2, 3.58 ERA, and in the Playoffs he is 1-1, 2.92 ERA, 12.1 IP in 2 Starts. Flaherty signed for a mere $14 mil with the Tigers to put himself back on the FA Market after the 2024 season ends. With Ohtani, Yamamoto, Glasnow, Miller, Buehler, Urias, etc. going into 2025, the Dodgers will probably not look to sign him long term.
Flaherty was my realistic choice for us to sign last year--fairly young, past success, good human, affordable...this quote from the game story reminded me a of a pitcher Huntington acquired that made a big impact when we were on the verge of contending:
"He's got an aura about him," Dodgers catcher Will Smith said. "He's super competitive, super focused. I see all his preparation he does for the couple days before the start. It's intense."
I think I remember people on here saying no because of him being controversial. You can Google what they were if you want. Interesting when I looked back Jalen Beeks was part of one of them. But at least we got Marco.
It seems his Dodgers' teammates really appreciate him, and though the Tigers took off after trading him and several teammates, they wouldn't have made the postseason without his performance from April-July.
In any case, I'm rooting for him and for the Dodgers in the NLCS, though that's primarily due to Betts.
I'm rooting for the Guardians. I was with you at the time. I thought his contract was a good risk. No hindsight 2020 here. Dude has opinions just like we just shared here.
Consensus on here by draft day was Skenes. Some of us (including me) were on him by late February/early March realizing how hard it is to find an ace, though most held out a bit longer for Crews.
I doubt any of us expected him to be as good as he was this year, though.
There were several posters that wanted a bat (I did too early) in the 2023 draft. By the time conference play was underway the 3 college players that separated themselves all had their supporters. The number of posters that flipped to Skenes in the last 3 months prior to the draft seemed to be a majority. There was still several that wanted the bat (Crews or Langford) though. I watched the last 9 or 10 Skenes starts and somewhere in those games he became a no brainer for me.
We got both - Skenes was a hard hitting Catcher for Air Force in his Freshman and Sophomore seasons, as well as a pitcher. I would not doubt his ability to step back into the batters box and do a Shohei if the circumstances dictated. The kid just has that type of Talent and work ethic.
I don't remember Lee Foo in that group but there was one prominent poster who stayed on Crews (and Lee might have been another). But I think consensus seemed to gather around Skenes even if it wasn't unanimous, which nothing ever is on a sports blog :)
Hmm. Turns out you can buy yourself a playoff team. The amount of money Dodgers spent on injured pitchers alone dwarfs many other payrolls. Even the Mets can overcome massive inefficiency and spend their way in.
Yankees payroll is barely more than KC, Cle & Det combined!
hardest thing in pro sports has to be a GM of a small market baseball team.
That’s why the Yankees and Dodgers are in the WS every year and teams like KC, Cle and Mil never make the playoffs.
Oh . . . wait . . . . .
To be fair, there is correlation between payroll and making the playoffs. It’s not an excuse for the Pirates, but the last time the Dodgers had a losing season was 2010 and the Yankees was 1992. Having to constantly turn your roster over, despite some great teams, is probably why the Brewers, A’s, Rays and Guards haven’t managed to win a World Series despite their recent successes this millennia.
Teams like the Dodgers, Yankees, Cleveland, and TB are trying to win every year. The Pirates management take years off under the excuse that they are in a rebuild. The Pirates have had two decent years in 2023 and 2024, but finished 10 under .500 both years.
Oh, I think they're trying. When Huntington took over, he slowly rebuilt it. But when he was done, he was trying every year. He just made some bad judgement calls at the end.
Same with Cherington, he's done building and now he's trying to win. He's just not very good at it. Maybe that changes this off-season, and he becomes good.
These dudes are highly competitive humans. You wouldn't even get into an MLB front office without being a highly competitive, let alone leading a franchise.
GM working for Pittsburgh and Bob Nutting has to be ahead of the rest of the GMs and also catch some breaks. Not exactly an easy job.
Obviously, there is a connection between payroll and winning.
Person making 300k per year is going to have nicer things than the guy making 50k per year.
The only way a person making 50k per year has nicer things is if he wins the lotto. Pirates won a lotto with Skenes; we'll see how it plays out.
In the end, sometimes the person making $50k can come out better with more effective management of resources. Sometimes people who win the lotto can’t effectively manage those winnings either, as we’ve seen. Ideally, the Pirates can parlay the Skenes bonanza into transformative revenue.
They'll get in but that's about it.
Famous small market GM from Oakland - "My shit doesn't work in the playoffs."
So BC is right in not even trying . . . . .
At least KC, Cle and Mil are willing to spend SOME money! Otherwise they wouldn't be in it, either.
The year KC won it, they had a payroll over 130M.
Lots of talk of parity in the playoffs around here.
The top 3 teams combine for roughly $867 million in payroll, or roughly $289 million per team.
Those 3 teams are ranked 1, 3 and 6 home runs. They are ranked 1, 3 and 7 in ISO. 1, 2 and 7 and wRC+.
Those same teams rank 14, 15 and 17 in pitching fWAR.
Wanna make a deep playoff run? Spend some money on the home run hitters.
No AFL game yesterday or today. Scottsdale will play Tuesday through Sunday this week, so the recaps will be back on Wednesday morning
Met a dude at an art fair my wife was slanging her wares at. He was from the capital of SC but man was he a Pittsburgh fan. Dude remembered Chico Lind and Belliard. Slyke was his favorite. Felt good to go all Springsteen on the Buccos with someone face to face. Hope everyone has a fun day.
Edit: Anyone remember this
https://youtu.be/cXf5GPt8O-E?si=krCXmNixLhEI90SY
Any signs of life from the Pirates front office?
The silence is deafening! Surprised that the calls for the firing of Derek Shelton have all but disappeared. Maybe that's their strategy - don't answer any direct questions, then stay as quiet as possible, and maybe they'll just go away!
That hope of fresh leadership kind of died when Cherington said that he recommended to Nutting that Shelton be retained and implied Nutting agreed. If there is a silver-lining, it's that surely Cherington is aware enough to know that his job and reputation are on the line in '25 and that he wants to stick with Shelton shows that it goes beyond them being buddies. Either he's right or they both should be gone after '25. Given the difficulty Cherington seems to have in judging talent, I wouldn't bet on it working out well for him.
There might be a sliver of hope that Nutting will still act (I think it was around this week in '19 when he fired Huntington) but with his evident lack of concern about wins and losses, I don't see that happening. I'd just like to know that he consulted with others besides Cherington when making the decision about Shelton.
I know this is your thing now, but Huntington was fired 10/28/2019. There is plenty of time for the Pirates to fire Cherington.
I'm not sure what my thing is, but the 28th only adds a bit to my sliver of hope. Actually, I'm working on coming around to the idea of another Cherington/Shelton year so that I can get excited about '25 despite my misgivings.
Best hope there is to glass half full it, and hope that Sarah Gelles and the new hires help Ben overcome his self destructive tendencies towards multi-positional no bat players. Let’s see some Trader Jerry and rip up the half the roster! It doesn’t seem to work for Dipoto, but at least they’d be interesting for once.
Tough to fire someone at this point too. Ideally you do it as early as possible so whomever you hire can hit the ground running, as they are already going to be behind. This is all doubly true when you have Skenes and want to try to be competitive next year.
One reason to wait, which I don't think is what's happening, is to have access to coaches and/or FO personnel from the teams that are still in the postseason.
Instead, I think Nutting bought into the other changes (three significant changes to the FO and another three changes to the coaching staff) being enough, and they may be. We'll see.
But, you can still have a lot of your work done by this point. So let’s say you want to interview Craig Albernaz for the manager spot. You can have all your other interviews done, and then be ready to move right after the World Series. At this point, if they decide to move, you aren’t looking at having a GM in place until mid-November, and a manager in place until early December. Two to three weeks doesn’t sound like much, but when you’re talking about getting a new management team acclimated, every little bit helps. You figured, in place management teams are already receiving their budgets, constructing off season free agent lists, trade targets, etc.
The Dodgers gave up 2 highly rated prospects to get Jack Flaherty from the Tigers, but he started 10 games down the stretch, 6-2, 3.58 ERA, and in the Playoffs he is 1-1, 2.92 ERA, 12.1 IP in 2 Starts. Flaherty signed for a mere $14 mil with the Tigers to put himself back on the FA Market after the 2024 season ends. With Ohtani, Yamamoto, Glasnow, Miller, Buehler, Urias, etc. going into 2025, the Dodgers will probably not look to sign him long term.
One of those prospects is Trey Sweeney (45 FV) who was starting for the Tigers in the post season.
Flaherty was my realistic choice for us to sign last year--fairly young, past success, good human, affordable...this quote from the game story reminded me a of a pitcher Huntington acquired that made a big impact when we were on the verge of contending:
"He's got an aura about him," Dodgers catcher Will Smith said. "He's super competitive, super focused. I see all his preparation he does for the couple days before the start. It's intense."
I think I remember people on here saying no because of him being controversial. You can Google what they were if you want. Interesting when I looked back Jalen Beeks was part of one of them. But at least we got Marco.
It seems his Dodgers' teammates really appreciate him, and though the Tigers took off after trading him and several teammates, they wouldn't have made the postseason without his performance from April-July.
In any case, I'm rooting for him and for the Dodgers in the NLCS, though that's primarily due to Betts.
I'm rooting for the Guardians. I was with you at the time. I thought his contract was a good risk. No hindsight 2020 here. Dude has opinions just like we just shared here.
I am also rooting for the Guardians, but the Dodgers to be the team they face.
Guess id like to see Guardians beat Lindor. I like him a lot but would be a fun story line.
That's exactly right.
I think the same ppl are now saying Skenes was a slam dunk, when they were screaming for Crews.
Consensus on here by draft day was Skenes. Some of us (including me) were on him by late February/early March realizing how hard it is to find an ace, though most held out a bit longer for Crews.
I doubt any of us expected him to be as good as he was this year, though.
There were several posters that wanted a bat (I did too early) in the 2023 draft. By the time conference play was underway the 3 college players that separated themselves all had their supporters. The number of posters that flipped to Skenes in the last 3 months prior to the draft seemed to be a majority. There was still several that wanted the bat (Crews or Langford) though. I watched the last 9 or 10 Skenes starts and somewhere in those games he became a no brainer for me.
Twas you that swayed me. Thanks
Not how I remember it at all. Posters like Lee Foo stopped posting because they drafted Skenes. The majority wanted the bat.
We got both - Skenes was a hard hitting Catcher for Air Force in his Freshman and Sophomore seasons, as well as a pitcher. I would not doubt his ability to step back into the batters box and do a Shohei if the circumstances dictated. The kid just has that type of Talent and work ethic.
I don't remember Lee Foo in that group but there was one prominent poster who stayed on Crews (and Lee might have been another). But I think consensus seemed to gather around Skenes even if it wasn't unanimous, which nothing ever is on a sports blog :)