So who are our 2 extra roster spots going to? There's really no one I'm dying to see from the farm other than I'd think Nicky G. should get the call. Priester, Roansy, Kranick could be spot start call ups later in the month and then optioned back. Maybe the other spot goes to Hank if his thumb has resolved.
I would bring up Triolo and CSN while sending Williams down. Play Triolo at short to see how he handles it at the mlb level. Give CSN time in the corners and see what he looks like with some consistent at bats.
In Indy, give Williams some games at 2nd and 3rd, just make sure he gets to bat everyday. On the pitching side, I'd bring up Ro first, then Priester. Not sure I'd bring Kranick off his rehab until he has multiple good outings.
Opinion of who, Suwinski? You said part of it yourself. Schwarber has 37 HRs and 85 RBI and hit 46 HRs last year while Suwinski has 22 HR and 56 RBI. Clearly, Suwinski is NOT Kyle Schwarber so there’s really not much to discuss. Suwinski simply does not do the good things that Schwarber does all that well. The only similarities are their strike outs and BA’s. Schwarber’s power numbers are excellent if not elite and Suwinski’s are good for the Pirates but nothing special at all overall.
One big difference is that the Phillies have several other good players who can cover for some of Schwarber’s deficiencies and allow him to do the one thing he does well. The Pirates have only a couple of other good players and multiple gaping holes in the lineup virtually every day and unfortunately much of the time one of those is Jack Suwinski.
Schwarber is all homers and walks. That’s it; everything else in his game is pretty much a detriment. Jack is homers, walks, and decent defense. 15 homers is a big gap, but big Kyle gives a lot of that back.
If you want a different flavor of WAR, the gap is wider.
Well there goes my last hope of the Pirates salvaging anything from this year and dampens my desire for 2024. 3 years of coaching one of the worst offenses in baseball and he keeps his job.
I think you could target Detmers and Schanuel and not give up the core of the youth. They would still need quality but from areas of depth on the pirates with quantity as well.
Example Triolo, NickyG, Priester, Contreras as close to or major league ready. Throw in a M Nunez, Forrester, Sullivan and Barco to close. It's a lot but should get a deal done. The Halos have very little in their upper minors, (double and triple A) most are of the Palacios, Capra or Andujar type player. (having a strong season but haven't produced at the mlb level) After Ohtani leaves they'll need to restock their system, most near ready prospects they had were injured, just drafted or traded to make a run this year.
Guys like that and Robert on Chicago are so good, locked up for so long, and so cheap the cost is just too much. If KC hasn’t moved much of anywhere at this point in 2025, I’m giving them a call.
That's one of the reasons I think we should go for Pache. He's blocked in Philly by Marsh and they also have Rojas. If we could make an equal value trade it could really improve the outfield defense. Not sure his bat will be much though.
Pache is a guy who I would only try to pick up if some credible hitting coach in the organization told me exactly how he intended to fix his whirleybird-like swing. He looks like he is throwing haymakers at the ball on every swing, and when he does connect, he hits far too many groundballs. I don't think he sees the ball very well, and I think his swing is to slow to catch up to MLB heat.
He is obviously gold glove material in CF, but to this point, his hitting has been so bad that he is really unplayable (though the same could be said for Hedges and the Pirates just loved him). There is a reason that the As, who could use any prospect they can find, were happy to be rid of him. This is not to say they may have made a mistake, but I would need someone to explain to me how exactly how they are going to fix him.
I doubt LAA looks at moving any guys in the pre arb status (much as you love Nolan!). They actually have a collection of not bad talent in that group: Detmers, Schanuel, O’Hoppe, Neto, Moniak as a role player. They’re shedding any and all salary they can, I don’t think that includes young talent making no money.
I agree, that's why it's an overpay. (2 for 8) I didn't throw in any player that doesn't have a reasonable chance at becoming a mlb player. Sullivan is the only player that hasn't been on the team top 30 list and he's holding his own in double A. Probably switch out Jebb for one of Nunez or Forrester.
I have the Pirates giving up 4 pitchers with more service time left than Detmers coming back and only 1 hasn't made it to double A
I have the Pirates giving up a mlb ready 3rd basemen, a problem area for the Halos.
A 2nd baseman that still flashes potential, they got one year left of their current 2nd basemen. A potential 1st basemen to replace the player they're giving up. With Jebb a potential SS, 2nd or centerfielder.
I'm not arguing your point, I always hated being on the quantity over quality side.
I've been a Jack supporter, but even I am wearing down. The .300 difference in OPS and 79 OPS+ difference versus LH is just too great to ignore. He had 5 HR off LH in 2022, only 1 this year in about same number of ABs. So that's called regression. If he has to face a LH, let it be a soft tosser (Rich Hill!) not the guy with 99 that he faced two nights ago (Ragans) where he has no chance. He's a valuable piece on the 26-man, there's more RH starters in the league, he'll contribute plenty.
60 years ago today, I attended my first MLB game. Pirates v. Reds at Forbes Field.
Bucs lost 6-0....first batter Pete Rose....first hit Frank Robinson...first Pirate hit Dick Schofield. Inside the park HR off the flagpole in left center by Tommy Harper. Jim O'Toole beat Bob Friend.
I was hooked. I left Pittsburgh in 1965 but somehow still follow this team.....(am I crazy?)
Me as well. Spent the last 5 hours trying to figure out what that meant. It's really racking my brain. Did she do all the same things as Mr. Dyckman? I think we need closure.
Such little faith! Kidding of course. I would like to see them break 70 wins, but they’ve got a fairly difficult schedule the rest of the way. A dozen games against the top three teams in the central and Philly, plus three in Atlanta, the Yankees...
Been thinking about this, too. But even if the Pirates go 20-8 like it’s April again, that leaves them at .500. I don’t think we make the playoffs with a .500 record. And frankly, I’m not sure if Gio, Lopez, Carrasco, Bader etc. could get us there.
Would be nice to have a .500 record and would be nice to see the management show an interest in trying to win for once, but not sure if this is the way to do it.
Bader or a trade for Pache as long as it was a fair trade. I would love to see an elite centerfielder out there. If they bring in a good hitting coach, I'd like to see them try acquiring a guy like Bleday for a corner spot. (really think he's a small adjustment away from being very good)
We do all realize that Falter has pitched better than Giolito and Carrassco recently, Renfro has not been that much better than Palacios, and Bader is hitting under .200 in the last month? I couldn't care less about Nutting burning money and I do like 'what if' discussions but me thinks we are envisioning these players at their peak or at least average value. One player turning things around sure seems reasonable which is why many may get added to contenders rosters (and some dropped again soon after). I just don't want this to evolve into an opportunity lost debate and our GM doesn't care about winning discussion. We have many other opportunities where that can fit.
Are we really going to just go with the last month of games saying our own guys are better? Talk about inflating our own players too much.
I like Bader because he’s an excellent glove in CF, and he, in turn, makes the rest of the OF better by shifting Jack to right. Defense still doesn’t cost all that much on the open market so it’s a way to improve some and not break the bank. He’s not without risk; injuries, inconsistencies at the plate. But I think it’s a good buy low player.
As for the rest...Gio may be a good pickup only to get the staff through the season and ease some of that burden. Also, they’re going to need an arm from the outside for the rotation in 24 anyway, why not give him a look.
No..not saying our own players are better or will be, more calling out all these guys would really have to step up their performance to make a playoff run. . My point is that it is not realistic to think this bag of players is going to trigger some end of year run for the playoffs and if we don't do it our GM is an idiot. To your point I like Bader as a possible 2024 piece and I can see where adding him now could make the Pirates better for the final month. I'm not a believer that adding a player for one month gives a team much advantage in signing them for the future and Bader is a free agent. I still believe $'s will just about always be the decision factor.
I would love to have Bader, but he is going to be looking for a longer term deal at around 10-12 million per year. He might go as low as 8 per year for 3 years, but I doubt it. Most teams not name the Pittsburgh Pirates take defense in CF seriously. The best solution to the CF situation is to trade a couple of the A-ball prospects for a guy with some years of control that does not break the bank.
Oh I gotcha. I don’t think anyone realistically thinks that even if they got all ex-Angels, this team can make a run. Maybe b-Mac does, but I don’t think anyone else does. You could give this team 1990 Bonds, and they ain’t hopping six teams.
I hope that jack has one more torrid stretch in him this season, and it would be fun if he did it against a division opponent to carry the team to another sweep (ahem st. louis)
Don’t you wish it were true? Relying on Suwinski to carry this team anywhere is a very precarious position to be in, but people do seem to love him for whatever reason. Keep hoping and wishing. Haines has been working with him after all.
They like him because he's good at baseball. I get the feeling you take way too much stock in batting averages. As a hitter, he's 10% better than league average, which is good.
For all your kvetching about him, the dude has hit 22 homers, done fairly well defensively, drawn walks, etc. I get that some fans can’t seem to accept super streaky players, but when you look at the whole 130 game sample so far, Jack has been decent. It’s more than we can say for a lot of the rest. He’s a useful player. That’s a good thing.
He’s a worse version of Adam LaRoche. He appears to be good enough when just looking at end of year stats, but in actuality he’s nowhere near good enough because his lows are way too low for way too long every year.
So what you’re saying is the stats don’t matter? Bold take.
I’m not saying Jack is a central player to build around. I’m saying he’s a useful piece, flaws and all, and you need those. Some fans either can’t see or choose not to see that because all they see is a bad month or two and it blinds them completely to what the player can do.
I’m not saying stats don’t matter, I’m saying end of year stats can be deceiving.
Good players, which is what I want the roster to consist of, don’t have 1-2 month long slumps year after year.
And when I say slump, I’m talking about a hitter who is swinging the bat like a bad hitting SP from the days when Pitchers were forced to hit.
If you want to sell me that Jack can be a useful strong side platoon OF type who can PH on days he doesn’t start, then I could see that. But thinking he’s an everyday CF on a contender is a bridge too far.
As Catch said, just because Jack gets his numbers in an abnormal way doesn’t mean he isn’t good. Good players (both full and part time) come in all shapes and sizes, which is one of the many beautiful things about this game. Many ways to skin that cat.
Also we’re (checks watch) not even two full years in to Jack’s MLB career so I’m not sure I’d use the year-after-year term. He’s already surpassed much of the industries expectations already in that he’s done some damage at the MLB level and is an above average glove in the OF. So it wouldn’t surprise me if he develops a little bit more. When we’re talking about this organization finding or developing some unexpected or rather unheralded prospects and turning them into productive MLB pieces, this is what we’re talking about. They need some good fortune there for this team to achieve success.
All this being said...yeah, Jack is prolly a platoon guy. He may not get the benefit of seeing if he can truly hit lefties and be an everyday guy and that’s ok. Because Joe may be a perfect partner for him in that regard (talk about getting another solid piece). I’m not sure how all this works out positionally at OF/DH/1B in 24 (Davis? A better fielding CF? Cutch?). But that’s a question for the off-season.
Really happy for Jack Suwinski finally breaking through - hope this gives him that boost in confidence to finish the season strong. Regardless of the slump, he has more than validated is role in CF/RF and a middle of the order hitter going into 2024.
Andre Jackson looked VG mixing his FB and Change-up and keeping the Royals off balance at the plate. Should be a strong #3 in the Rotation for the remainder of the season. He's averaging 95.2 mph with his FB throwing it 42.4% of the time, and pairing that with his Change-up averaging 87 mph, and throwing that 34.8% of the time. Interesting that he increased the velocity of his change-up from 85 to 87 in 2023 and is having a lot of success. Excellent pick-up by BC from the Dodgers in late June. For the Pirates he has thrown 24.2 innings, 3 Starts/3 Relief appearances, 1-1, 2.92 ERA. Came into 2023 with 39 days of MLB Service, and has 54 days this year to date.
I’m not sold on Jack at all. Maybe a new hitting coach can unlock the ability to be much more consistent. Hitting one HR by taking advantage of a bad pitch by a bad Pitcher doesn’t make up for being absolutely dreadful for over a month.
I think the Pirates are at a point where they have a lot of pitching talent at the upper levels, but could be looking for a few "bridge" SP's (already in the org) to join Keller and Oviedo in the Rotation to start 2024 rather than buying one or two FA pitchers. Jackson, Ortiz, Priester, Contreras, and Falter could be in that grouping.
Respectfully, this is wrong. One or more of these guys might work out but it’s as least as likely they don’t and we’re in Groundhog Day this time next year.
Nutting needs to spend that league-leading profit he hoards every year and pick up two SPs. Sonny Gray/Lorenzen-class SPs, not flea market finds like Velasquez and Rich Hill.
BC should be pounding tables to go hard after a medium level FA SP on a multi year deal this winter. Blake Snell has probably pitched his way out of Pirates budget, but someone like Jordan Montgomery, Sonny Gray, or Marcus Stroman would be affordable and a major upgrade to those you listed.
Yeah... I much prefer to see an extension for Keller than bringing in some random 30-something middle-of-the-rotation free-agent pitcher on a multi-year, 15-million-per-year deal. I don't even think it is a discussion worth having.
There is this idea that Nutting should spend just for the sake of spending, but the fact of the matter is that even Nutting cannot spend more money than he takes in in revenue. Can payroll increase? Of course it can... but I very much suspect that the MLB payroll cannot much exceed 100,000,000 in the best of times, which these are not. Unless attendance and ticket prices move up to league average, the Pirates are going to have to budget for about an 80,000,000 payroll going forward and that means... no high-priced free agents... period.... none.
Attendance has been up this year, and payroll has been trending higher at about 10% per year over the last two or three years. I would expect the same going forward, especially given their narrative and considering where they are with prospect promotions. My best guess is that they’ll likely spend about $35M this off-season, including FA, arb raises, and extensions.
Per Forbes, the Pirates were the most profitable franchise in MLB with $55 million in operating revenue. That’s $55 million per year that Nutting could add to this year’s payroll, or spend on analytics, or player development, or whatever, rather than what he’s been doing: pocketing it.
So who are our 2 extra roster spots going to? There's really no one I'm dying to see from the farm other than I'd think Nicky G. should get the call. Priester, Roansy, Kranick could be spot start call ups later in the month and then optioned back. Maybe the other spot goes to Hank if his thumb has resolved.
I’d like to see Gorski get a chance. The Pirates need outfielders, and he’s their only top 30 outfield prospect above A ball.
I would bring up Triolo and CSN while sending Williams down. Play Triolo at short to see how he handles it at the mlb level. Give CSN time in the corners and see what he looks like with some consistent at bats.
In Indy, give Williams some games at 2nd and 3rd, just make sure he gets to bat everyday. On the pitching side, I'd bring up Ro first, then Priester. Not sure I'd bring Kranick off his rehab until he has multiple good outings.
I guess Nicky G? Should let Jones just pitch out of MLB bullpen for rest of year
I'd agree with Jones but don't trust the front office dfa'ing the right person lol.
If Jack was Kyle Schwarber with decent defense, how would that change your opinion? (fwiw, Schwarb has 37 HRs and is hitting .188).
Opinion of who, Suwinski? You said part of it yourself. Schwarber has 37 HRs and 85 RBI and hit 46 HRs last year while Suwinski has 22 HR and 56 RBI. Clearly, Suwinski is NOT Kyle Schwarber so there’s really not much to discuss. Suwinski simply does not do the good things that Schwarber does all that well. The only similarities are their strike outs and BA’s. Schwarber’s power numbers are excellent if not elite and Suwinski’s are good for the Pirates but nothing special at all overall.
One big difference is that the Phillies have several other good players who can cover for some of Schwarber’s deficiencies and allow him to do the one thing he does well. The Pirates have only a couple of other good players and multiple gaping holes in the lineup virtually every day and unfortunately much of the time one of those is Jack Suwinski.
Schwarber 0.6 fWAR
Suwinski 2.1 fWAR
Jack is objectively better by quite a bit.
Schwarber is all homers and walks. That’s it; everything else in his game is pretty much a detriment. Jack is homers, walks, and decent defense. 15 homers is a big gap, but big Kyle gives a lot of that back.
If you want a different flavor of WAR, the gap is wider.
Schwarber: -0.1 bWAR
Suwinski: 1.8 bWAR
Haines is coming back next year:
https://www.post-gazette.com/sports/pirates/2023/08/31/pirates-hitting-coach-andy-haines-bring-back-2024/stories/202308310130
Well there goes my last hope of the Pirates salvaging anything from this year and dampens my desire for 2024. 3 years of coaching one of the worst offenses in baseball and he keeps his job.
saves me time watching the games for next year, i suppose
Damn
Michael Siani just dfa'd, hasn't hit but is a very good centerfielder.
Cleveland claimed Giolito, Moore and Lopez today and the Reds claimed Bader and Renfroe.
Cleveland 11.5 games back of the last AL wild card.
Cincinnati 1 game back of the last NL wild card.
Pirates 8.5 games back of the last NL wild card.
This is some deep strategy! Not letting any of those 3 make it thru to the Twins who also need pitching! I like it!
Also got some vets with the young starters.
Cle 5 games back of first place
It would be crazy if the AL central was won with a losing record.
I though the NL central was going to be bad, now maybe 3 teams make the playoffs. (Unlikely but possible)
Would the Angels trade Reid Detmers for Henry Davis?
If they would, should the Pirates make that trade?
Keller
Detmers
Skenes
FA
Oviedo
I think you could target Detmers and Schanuel and not give up the core of the youth. They would still need quality but from areas of depth on the pirates with quantity as well.
Example Triolo, NickyG, Priester, Contreras as close to or major league ready. Throw in a M Nunez, Forrester, Sullivan and Barco to close. It's a lot but should get a deal done. The Halos have very little in their upper minors, (double and triple A) most are of the Palacios, Capra or Andujar type player. (having a strong season but haven't produced at the mlb level) After Ohtani leaves they'll need to restock their system, most near ready prospects they had were injured, just drafted or traded to make a run this year.
Wonder what it would take to get Bobby Whitt Jr?
A lot. More than we could part with and still be competitive.
Guys like that and Robert on Chicago are so good, locked up for so long, and so cheap the cost is just too much. If KC hasn’t moved much of anywhere at this point in 2025, I’m giving them a call.
That's one of the reasons I think we should go for Pache. He's blocked in Philly by Marsh and they also have Rojas. If we could make an equal value trade it could really improve the outfield defense. Not sure his bat will be much though.
Pache is a guy who I would only try to pick up if some credible hitting coach in the organization told me exactly how he intended to fix his whirleybird-like swing. He looks like he is throwing haymakers at the ball on every swing, and when he does connect, he hits far too many groundballs. I don't think he sees the ball very well, and I think his swing is to slow to catch up to MLB heat.
He is obviously gold glove material in CF, but to this point, his hitting has been so bad that he is really unplayable (though the same could be said for Hedges and the Pirates just loved him). There is a reason that the As, who could use any prospect they can find, were happy to be rid of him. This is not to say they may have made a mistake, but I would need someone to explain to me how exactly how they are going to fix him.
I doubt LAA looks at moving any guys in the pre arb status (much as you love Nolan!). They actually have a collection of not bad talent in that group: Detmers, Schanuel, O’Hoppe, Neto, Moniak as a role player. They’re shedding any and all salary they can, I don’t think that includes young talent making no money.
I agree, that's why it's an overpay. (2 for 8) I didn't throw in any player that doesn't have a reasonable chance at becoming a mlb player. Sullivan is the only player that hasn't been on the team top 30 list and he's holding his own in double A. Probably switch out Jebb for one of Nunez or Forrester.
I have the Pirates giving up 4 pitchers with more service time left than Detmers coming back and only 1 hasn't made it to double A
I have the Pirates giving up a mlb ready 3rd basemen, a problem area for the Halos.
A 2nd baseman that still flashes potential, they got one year left of their current 2nd basemen. A potential 1st basemen to replace the player they're giving up. With Jebb a potential SS, 2nd or centerfielder.
I'm not arguing your point, I always hated being on the quantity over quality side.
I've been a Jack supporter, but even I am wearing down. The .300 difference in OPS and 79 OPS+ difference versus LH is just too great to ignore. He had 5 HR off LH in 2022, only 1 this year in about same number of ABs. So that's called regression. If he has to face a LH, let it be a soft tosser (Rich Hill!) not the guy with 99 that he faced two nights ago (Ragans) where he has no chance. He's a valuable piece on the 26-man, there's more RH starters in the league, he'll contribute plenty.
60 years ago today, I attended my first MLB game. Pirates v. Reds at Forbes Field.
Bucs lost 6-0....first batter Pete Rose....first hit Frank Robinson...first Pirate hit Dick Schofield. Inside the park HR off the flagpole in left center by Tommy Harper. Jim O'Toole beat Bob Friend.
I was hooked. I left Pittsburgh in 1965 but somehow still follow this team.....(am I crazy?)
No, you're not crazy. You still have that little kid in you.
so did my wife
I’m uncomfortable.
Me as well. Spent the last 5 hours trying to figure out what that meant. It's really racking my brain. Did she do all the same things as Mr. Dyckman? I think we need closure.
😂
Game 2 of DSL chip just popped up on MiLB scoreboard. Starts in 15 mins!
We could use the 2024 offseason budget instead for this month to make a run at the wild card - its the same $20mil
Giolito, Bader, Moore Reynaldo, Renfroe and Carrasco + Oneil to DH instead of Zastryzny, Ortiz, Falter , Bolton, Palacios, Rivas and Alika
Its only 8 games fellas!
It’s not the 8 game deficit, it’s having to climb over 6 teams in a month that makes it too tall a mountain to climb.
Such little faith! Kidding of course. I would like to see them break 70 wins, but they’ve got a fairly difficult schedule the rest of the way. A dozen games against the top three teams in the central and Philly, plus three in Atlanta, the Yankees...
Been thinking about this, too. But even if the Pirates go 20-8 like it’s April again, that leaves them at .500. I don’t think we make the playoffs with a .500 record. And frankly, I’m not sure if Gio, Lopez, Carrasco, Bader etc. could get us there.
Would be nice to have a .500 record and would be nice to see the management show an interest in trying to win for once, but not sure if this is the way to do it.
Bader is a guy I’d love for them to take a flier on for 2024. He’d help their OF defense a lot.
Bader or a trade for Pache as long as it was a fair trade. I would love to see an elite centerfielder out there. If they bring in a good hitting coach, I'd like to see them try acquiring a guy like Bleday for a corner spot. (really think he's a small adjustment away from being very good)
We do all realize that Falter has pitched better than Giolito and Carrassco recently, Renfro has not been that much better than Palacios, and Bader is hitting under .200 in the last month? I couldn't care less about Nutting burning money and I do like 'what if' discussions but me thinks we are envisioning these players at their peak or at least average value. One player turning things around sure seems reasonable which is why many may get added to contenders rosters (and some dropped again soon after). I just don't want this to evolve into an opportunity lost debate and our GM doesn't care about winning discussion. We have many other opportunities where that can fit.
Are we really going to just go with the last month of games saying our own guys are better? Talk about inflating our own players too much.
I like Bader because he’s an excellent glove in CF, and he, in turn, makes the rest of the OF better by shifting Jack to right. Defense still doesn’t cost all that much on the open market so it’s a way to improve some and not break the bank. He’s not without risk; injuries, inconsistencies at the plate. But I think it’s a good buy low player.
As for the rest...Gio may be a good pickup only to get the staff through the season and ease some of that burden. Also, they’re going to need an arm from the outside for the rotation in 24 anyway, why not give him a look.
No..not saying our own players are better or will be, more calling out all these guys would really have to step up their performance to make a playoff run. . My point is that it is not realistic to think this bag of players is going to trigger some end of year run for the playoffs and if we don't do it our GM is an idiot. To your point I like Bader as a possible 2024 piece and I can see where adding him now could make the Pirates better for the final month. I'm not a believer that adding a player for one month gives a team much advantage in signing them for the future and Bader is a free agent. I still believe $'s will just about always be the decision factor.
I would love to have Bader, but he is going to be looking for a longer term deal at around 10-12 million per year. He might go as low as 8 per year for 3 years, but I doubt it. Most teams not name the Pittsburgh Pirates take defense in CF seriously. The best solution to the CF situation is to trade a couple of the A-ball prospects for a guy with some years of control that does not break the bank.
Oh I gotcha. I don’t think anyone realistically thinks that even if they got all ex-Angels, this team can make a run. Maybe b-Mac does, but I don’t think anyone else does. You could give this team 1990 Bonds, and they ain’t hopping six teams.
the last part of your message is the key
what we want to do right now is make our core team hungry for meat
it would almost be better if they didnt make the playoffs and came a half a game short of the wildcard birth
I hope that jack has one more torrid stretch in him this season, and it would be fun if he did it against a division opponent to carry the team to another sweep (ahem st. louis)
Don’t you wish it were true? Relying on Suwinski to carry this team anywhere is a very precarious position to be in, but people do seem to love him for whatever reason. Keep hoping and wishing. Haines has been working with him after all.
They like him because he's good at baseball. I get the feeling you take way too much stock in batting averages. As a hitter, he's 10% better than league average, which is good.
For all your kvetching about him, the dude has hit 22 homers, done fairly well defensively, drawn walks, etc. I get that some fans can’t seem to accept super streaky players, but when you look at the whole 130 game sample so far, Jack has been decent. It’s more than we can say for a lot of the rest. He’s a useful player. That’s a good thing.
He’s a worse version of Adam LaRoche. He appears to be good enough when just looking at end of year stats, but in actuality he’s nowhere near good enough because his lows are way too low for way too long every year.
So what you’re saying is the stats don’t matter? Bold take.
I’m not saying Jack is a central player to build around. I’m saying he’s a useful piece, flaws and all, and you need those. Some fans either can’t see or choose not to see that because all they see is a bad month or two and it blinds them completely to what the player can do.
I’m not saying stats don’t matter, I’m saying end of year stats can be deceiving.
Good players, which is what I want the roster to consist of, don’t have 1-2 month long slumps year after year.
And when I say slump, I’m talking about a hitter who is swinging the bat like a bad hitting SP from the days when Pitchers were forced to hit.
If you want to sell me that Jack can be a useful strong side platoon OF type who can PH on days he doesn’t start, then I could see that. But thinking he’s an everyday CF on a contender is a bridge too far.
As Catch said, just because Jack gets his numbers in an abnormal way doesn’t mean he isn’t good. Good players (both full and part time) come in all shapes and sizes, which is one of the many beautiful things about this game. Many ways to skin that cat.
Also we’re (checks watch) not even two full years in to Jack’s MLB career so I’m not sure I’d use the year-after-year term. He’s already surpassed much of the industries expectations already in that he’s done some damage at the MLB level and is an above average glove in the OF. So it wouldn’t surprise me if he develops a little bit more. When we’re talking about this organization finding or developing some unexpected or rather unheralded prospects and turning them into productive MLB pieces, this is what we’re talking about. They need some good fortune there for this team to achieve success.
All this being said...yeah, Jack is prolly a platoon guy. He may not get the benefit of seeing if he can truly hit lefties and be an everyday guy and that’s ok. Because Joe may be a perfect partner for him in that regard (talk about getting another solid piece). I’m not sure how all this works out positionally at OF/DH/1B in 24 (Davis? A better fielding CF? Cutch?). But that’s a question for the off-season.
2+ war players are good players. Just because he doesn't do it the way you like, doesn't mean he isn't good.
Can we talk about the DSL Pirates team? I think the Gold team is in the league finals at the moment?
They lost today 7-5, losing a one-run lead in the 8th inning. Tomorrow is winner take all.
Yup, and they won game 1 yesterday. Not sure when second game is, haven't seen it listed yet.
Hurricane?
Shouldn't be, cause Ian just rolled through Florida and should be on its way into Atlantic by now
Really happy for Jack Suwinski finally breaking through - hope this gives him that boost in confidence to finish the season strong. Regardless of the slump, he has more than validated is role in CF/RF and a middle of the order hitter going into 2024.
Andre Jackson looked VG mixing his FB and Change-up and keeping the Royals off balance at the plate. Should be a strong #3 in the Rotation for the remainder of the season. He's averaging 95.2 mph with his FB throwing it 42.4% of the time, and pairing that with his Change-up averaging 87 mph, and throwing that 34.8% of the time. Interesting that he increased the velocity of his change-up from 85 to 87 in 2023 and is having a lot of success. Excellent pick-up by BC from the Dodgers in late June. For the Pirates he has thrown 24.2 innings, 3 Starts/3 Relief appearances, 1-1, 2.92 ERA. Came into 2023 with 39 days of MLB Service, and has 54 days this year to date.
I’m not sold on Jack at all. Maybe a new hitting coach can unlock the ability to be much more consistent. Hitting one HR by taking advantage of a bad pitch by a bad Pitcher doesn’t make up for being absolutely dreadful for over a month.
Looks like he's got the 'stuff'. Just has to keep the BBs down. Would be a really nice addition to the team if he can keep this up.
I think the Pirates are at a point where they have a lot of pitching talent at the upper levels, but could be looking for a few "bridge" SP's (already in the org) to join Keller and Oviedo in the Rotation to start 2024 rather than buying one or two FA pitchers. Jackson, Ortiz, Priester, Contreras, and Falter could be in that grouping.
Respectfully, this is wrong. One or more of these guys might work out but it’s as least as likely they don’t and we’re in Groundhog Day this time next year.
Nutting needs to spend that league-leading profit he hoards every year and pick up two SPs. Sonny Gray/Lorenzen-class SPs, not flea market finds like Velasquez and Rich Hill.
Please no!
BC should be pounding tables to go hard after a medium level FA SP on a multi year deal this winter. Blake Snell has probably pitched his way out of Pirates budget, but someone like Jordan Montgomery, Sonny Gray, or Marcus Stroman would be affordable and a major upgrade to those you listed.
Pirates aren't signing any of those guys.
Yeah... I much prefer to see an extension for Keller than bringing in some random 30-something middle-of-the-rotation free-agent pitcher on a multi-year, 15-million-per-year deal. I don't even think it is a discussion worth having.
There is this idea that Nutting should spend just for the sake of spending, but the fact of the matter is that even Nutting cannot spend more money than he takes in in revenue. Can payroll increase? Of course it can... but I very much suspect that the MLB payroll cannot much exceed 100,000,000 in the best of times, which these are not. Unless attendance and ticket prices move up to league average, the Pirates are going to have to budget for about an 80,000,000 payroll going forward and that means... no high-priced free agents... period.... none.
Attendance has been up this year, and payroll has been trending higher at about 10% per year over the last two or three years. I would expect the same going forward, especially given their narrative and considering where they are with prospect promotions. My best guess is that they’ll likely spend about $35M this off-season, including FA, arb raises, and extensions.
Per Forbes, the Pirates were the most profitable franchise in MLB with $55 million in operating revenue. That’s $55 million per year that Nutting could add to this year’s payroll, or spend on analytics, or player development, or whatever, rather than what he’s been doing: pocketing it.