I know this isn’t going to come as a shock to anyone who pays money to read about the Pirates, but they aren’t going to start the season with the best 26 guys on the OD roster. Right or wrong, the brain trust has to think about today and tomorrow. It just appears they sacrifice today for tomorrow more than other teams.
Not defending the front office, I criticize them as much as anyone, but if this statement infer that they are holding people back I’m gonna push back a little. I could make an argument that Davis, Peguero and perhaps Priester and Ortiz were rushed. For the most part they have these players for 6 years, let’s make sure we get the best 6 and not waste a year or two rushing them.
Peguero is better than Williams. You can do mental gymnastics to justify it if you choose, but at the end of those mental backflips, the fact remains. Peggy>Alika
I think it’s probably negligible, but a IF including Cruz, Peggy, and Triolo is better than Cruz, Triolo, and Williams. Triolo can play anywhere in the IF, Williams can’t.
I think we have some improved bats from a couple years ago, at least the potenitial is higher. Cruz and Davis especially. Our bullpen looks much more solid.
I am seeing some similar construction to the Pirates 2022 roster.
Murph - make sure you acknowledge that Peguero only has one option left.
That means if he starts in the minors and comes up we’re fine but if he starts the majors and gets sent down due to a Numbers game etc. then he loses his last option.
I wonder if the fact that neither Ortiz nor Priester were scheduled to start games this weekend means anything? Jones yesterday, Anderson ( who I have penciled in as our 5th starter but I’m neither for it or against it!) today.
It’s all random. Washed up guy A. Washed up guy B. Washed up guy C. Who’ll make the Pirates? It’s like wondering exactly which strain of poison ivy is in your backyard.
MLBTR reported last night that Anderson is expected to opt out of his deal based on an X post and it made it sound like it was not conditional on whether he made the team, which seems odd. Has it been reported that he's not making the roster? Or maybe Anderson believes he can make more money by opting out after his strong spring? It just seemed like a lot of details were left out.
Just read this article about Pirates asking him to become a side arm pitcher, I think is a good idea, it seems like they just told him and he was left out to find coaching on his own!!! Here’s a quote of him asking an outside training agency for help transitioning: “He was like, ‘The Pirates are telling me I need to drop down,’” Fischer said. “‘I really don’t have a ton of direction with this. I’d love to work with you.’”
I agree, as long as that's not the only way they're able to help players. The quote about Case implies that the organization more or less said he was on his own to get help. We'll need clear examples of players making it with their development largely happening within instead of outside of our developmental structure. I'm not sure we have those yet, but I'm hopeful they'll be coming this year (perhaps Jones, Peguero, Triolo, ... of course I don't know who is seeking outside help and who is relying primarily on help from our coaches).
Thank you for the explanation regarding Liover Peguero - he did lose time in ST and just returned, but it still makes little, if any, sense. He came out smoking in ST, with an excellent OPS, and then contracted an illness which kept him off the field for about a week. He returned the other day and iirc, he made good contact in a game where very few players made good contact, and his fielding at ST has been VG at both SS and 2B - how will this be something positive? When you come in as a 22 year old starter with 200 AB, 7 HR from the previous year at the MLB level, and get sent back to AAA after a solid ST, IT IS NOT POSITIVE!
To me this is a shit-for-brains move, or as a former boss used to say "this has hair all over it"!
Communication is the key. If the plan is to have a full time second basemen (we already have a full-time SS and 3B), then it was 'winner take all' at 2B. Full time to me means starting about 9/10 games. In that scenario Triolo beat out Peguero (per this decision) and the backup infielder basically rots at the end of the bench with 2 or 3 starts over 2 weeks. In that scenario I prefer Peguero (or any other prospect with higher ceilings) to get full time playing time in AAA and force their way back. If that was clearly explained to him (and we DON'T know that - so others - not necessarily you Mel - spare me the Shelton/Ben opinions), then that is life as a professional. My opinion comes with assumptions and I get that. Net: if the backup infielder truly will not start more than maybe once a week then I am ok with this.
I think it's probably as simple as wanting Peggy to get several weeks of healthy ABs before having to face major league pitchers. It would be a shame if he had a rough April partly due to not having a full ST and then have that impact his confidence. Williams has options, so no harm letting Peggy start in AAA and then flipping them when/if Peggy (or Gonzales) shows he's ready. Plus, Williams may be in a position where he has to prove his worth else his roster spot will be used for one promotion or another.
I still think Triolo's best role is as a Zobrist-lite utility player, but having him play 2B every day is a better way for him to start his career. He's got to get that K rate down since he won't provide a ton of power, but that seems more achievable if he's also not moving around the field initially.
I think they still have a lot to prove and both could do that at the MLB level. In my world, I was proposing a job share. So over 10 games they likely start at least 6 games. 5 each at 2B, and likely 1 at SS (Peggy) and 1 at 3B or 1B (Triolo). And if they are both swinging the bat well maybe even 1 at DH. That keeps them fresh etc. I like your theory(some AB's in AAA to get healthy) as I prefer the job share (brilliant plan per my self evaluation) vs. all in on one. Plus Triolo is very versatile so it easily leads to getting at bats for both.
I've been advocating for it. He stunk offensively after his decent start at the majors last year and I don't buy spring numbers. He had almost no AAA time and I like him getting everyday reps at SS
Not saying I am right, but if you are ruling out Peguero because of his bad September, I would reward Nick over Alika. Nick hit .338 in September in Indy and cut his strike outs down to 16%. Triolo, who I still want on the roster has been striing out over 30%. I prefer Nick the most at second defensively. I prefer Triolo spelling Cruz and Hayes when needed (Cruz a little more). I also prefer Triolo playing first 30% of the time and spelling NIck 30% of the time. Again, not saying I am right.
Yeah that's what I preferred. Nick took care of business in AAA and hit some breaking balls this spring. I wanted him to back up Triolo though. And with Triolo moving around it would mean decent playing time for Nick. But maybe Nick can crush AAA and build trade value
Which raises the next question. If the Pirates want Peguero and NIck both to learn how to play second in Indy, how are they going to get every day reps there?
Triolo won
Congrats to Triolo
I know this isn’t going to come as a shock to anyone who pays money to read about the Pirates, but they aren’t going to start the season with the best 26 guys on the OD roster. Right or wrong, the brain trust has to think about today and tomorrow. It just appears they sacrifice today for tomorrow more than other teams.
Not defending the front office, I criticize them as much as anyone, but if this statement infer that they are holding people back I’m gonna push back a little. I could make an argument that Davis, Peguero and perhaps Priester and Ortiz were rushed. For the most part they have these players for 6 years, let’s make sure we get the best 6 and not waste a year or two rushing them.
Peguero is better than Williams. You can do mental gymnastics to justify it if you choose, but at the end of those mental backflips, the fact remains. Peggy>Alika
You are right, he is better. But Williams makes a better bench player than Peguero.
I think it’s probably negligible, but a IF including Cruz, Peggy, and Triolo is better than Cruz, Triolo, and Williams. Triolo can play anywhere in the IF, Williams can’t.
I agree with that, I just don’t think there would be enough at bats.
I think we have some improved bats from a couple years ago, at least the potenitial is higher. Cruz and Davis especially. Our bullpen looks much more solid.
I am seeing some similar construction to the Pirates 2022 roster.
Rowdy Tellez = Daniel Vogelbach
Alika Williams = Josh Van Meter
Michael Taylor = Jake Marisnick
Pirates 2022 rotation = Pirates 2024 rotation
Murph - make sure you acknowledge that Peguero only has one option left.
That means if he starts in the minors and comes up we’re fine but if he starts the majors and gets sent down due to a Numbers game etc. then he loses his last option.
Option last the whole season, so he could be called up and down as needed, but has to be in the 26 by November.
I wonder if the fact that neither Ortiz nor Priester were scheduled to start games this weekend means anything? Jones yesterday, Anderson ( who I have penciled in as our 5th starter but I’m neither for it or against it!) today.
Chase just got released!!!! I might have been wrong about him getting the 5th spot…..
It’s all random. Washed up guy A. Washed up guy B. Washed up guy C. Who’ll make the Pirates? It’s like wondering exactly which strain of poison ivy is in your backyard.
Poison ivy? I've got every strain!
Then I guess MLB should list someone different for the Pirate's probable starter today. :)
MLBTR reported last night that Anderson is expected to opt out of his deal based on an X post and it made it sound like it was not conditional on whether he made the team, which seems odd. Has it been reported that he's not making the roster? Or maybe Anderson believes he can make more money by opting out after his strong spring? It just seemed like a lot of details were left out.
The fact that Nick was optioned first threw us a curveball. I think most people then just figured Peggy made the team.
Is Alika Williams out of options?
No. Actually has 3
https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/pirates
Just read this article about Pirates asking him to become a side arm pitcher, I think is a good idea, it seems like they just told him and he was left out to find coaching on his own!!! Here’s a quote of him asking an outside training agency for help transitioning: “He was like, ‘The Pirates are telling me I need to drop down,’” Fischer said. “‘I really don’t have a ton of direction with this. I’d love to work with you.’”
What? Alika Williams becoming a side arm pitcher? I'm all for it! At least we wouldn't have to see him try to hit anymore!
He can barely get the ball to 1b from the hole!
The Pirates seem to have discovered a market inefficiency--just outsource the training and development.
They sure don't know how to do it themselves.
Nothing wrong with finding expertise to sharpen a player's portfolio, in my opinion.
I agree, as long as that's not the only way they're able to help players. The quote about Case implies that the organization more or less said he was on his own to get help. We'll need clear examples of players making it with their development largely happening within instead of outside of our developmental structure. I'm not sure we have those yet, but I'm hopeful they'll be coming this year (perhaps Jones, Peguero, Triolo, ... of course I don't know who is seeking outside help and who is relying primarily on help from our coaches).
Him being Brad Case…. Article in the PPG….its 4 am here…..I should be sleep…..but I can’t….
who is "him" ?
Thank you for the explanation regarding Liover Peguero - he did lose time in ST and just returned, but it still makes little, if any, sense. He came out smoking in ST, with an excellent OPS, and then contracted an illness which kept him off the field for about a week. He returned the other day and iirc, he made good contact in a game where very few players made good contact, and his fielding at ST has been VG at both SS and 2B - how will this be something positive? When you come in as a 22 year old starter with 200 AB, 7 HR from the previous year at the MLB level, and get sent back to AAA after a solid ST, IT IS NOT POSITIVE!
To me this is a shit-for-brains move, or as a former boss used to say "this has hair all over it"!
Communication is the key. If the plan is to have a full time second basemen (we already have a full-time SS and 3B), then it was 'winner take all' at 2B. Full time to me means starting about 9/10 games. In that scenario Triolo beat out Peguero (per this decision) and the backup infielder basically rots at the end of the bench with 2 or 3 starts over 2 weeks. In that scenario I prefer Peguero (or any other prospect with higher ceilings) to get full time playing time in AAA and force their way back. If that was clearly explained to him (and we DON'T know that - so others - not necessarily you Mel - spare me the Shelton/Ben opinions), then that is life as a professional. My opinion comes with assumptions and I get that. Net: if the backup infielder truly will not start more than maybe once a week then I am ok with this.
I think it's probably as simple as wanting Peggy to get several weeks of healthy ABs before having to face major league pitchers. It would be a shame if he had a rough April partly due to not having a full ST and then have that impact his confidence. Williams has options, so no harm letting Peggy start in AAA and then flipping them when/if Peggy (or Gonzales) shows he's ready. Plus, Williams may be in a position where he has to prove his worth else his roster spot will be used for one promotion or another.
I still think Triolo's best role is as a Zobrist-lite utility player, but having him play 2B every day is a better way for him to start his career. He's got to get that K rate down since he won't provide a ton of power, but that seems more achievable if he's also not moving around the field initially.
I think they still have a lot to prove and both could do that at the MLB level. In my world, I was proposing a job share. So over 10 games they likely start at least 6 games. 5 each at 2B, and likely 1 at SS (Peggy) and 1 at 3B or 1B (Triolo). And if they are both swinging the bat well maybe even 1 at DH. That keeps them fresh etc. I like your theory(some AB's in AAA to get healthy) as I prefer the job share (brilliant plan per my self evaluation) vs. all in on one. Plus Triolo is very versatile so it easily leads to getting at bats for both.
I've been advocating for it. He stunk offensively after his decent start at the majors last year and I don't buy spring numbers. He had almost no AAA time and I like him getting everyday reps at SS
Not saying I am right, but if you are ruling out Peguero because of his bad September, I would reward Nick over Alika. Nick hit .338 in September in Indy and cut his strike outs down to 16%. Triolo, who I still want on the roster has been striing out over 30%. I prefer Nick the most at second defensively. I prefer Triolo spelling Cruz and Hayes when needed (Cruz a little more). I also prefer Triolo playing first 30% of the time and spelling NIck 30% of the time. Again, not saying I am right.
Yeah that's what I preferred. Nick took care of business in AAA and hit some breaking balls this spring. I wanted him to back up Triolo though. And with Triolo moving around it would mean decent playing time for Nick. But maybe Nick can crush AAA and build trade value
Which raises the next question. If the Pirates want Peguero and NIck both to learn how to play second in Indy, how are they going to get every day reps there?
I think both are solid at second. I want them to improve at SS in case there's a long term need there if Cruz goes down
Both Nick and Peggy even with all the holes you claim they have are lights out better options then Alika Williams.