Their agents have some gonads....two pitchers injured all season. BC probably tried to stay flat with expiring, would like to see how far apart they are.
This will depend on how you define realistically. If you mean how much other teams with similar market sizes
realistically spend when not in rebuilding mode then at least 30 to 50 million to spend. See for example Brewers and Reds. If you mean how much Nutting is realistically willing to let Cherington spend on payroll then probably around 10 million max.
Brewers draw about 1m more per year in attendance and also generate an additional $20-$25m in annual parking revenues. Combined, that’s nearly $75m more in revenue than the Pirates. The Pirates are undeniably cheap, but their respective financial positions are very different.
I've wondered how much parking revenue PNC's location costs the Pirates. I love PNC, of course, but when I travel to Pittsburgh I either take the bus from a friend's house or park in a downtown garage and then walk when I go to a game, and I'm assuming none of my bus fare or garage cost goes to the Pirates.
As for attendance, the Pirates drew about 800K more fans in 2015 than in 2024, and if they had the Brewers consistent success, I'd guess their attendance figures would be much closer. But will Nutting spend first, or will it take a GM putting together a winner on a relative shoestring first.
It doesn’t really cost the Pirates anything bc they don’t own the lots, the city does. If anything, public transportation makes the games much more accessible and saves fans some extra money.
The last couple years, I have noticed the increase in parking in Milwaukee. Some games they charge between $25 and $50 for their lots. My trips to PNC it is much closer and easier and is usually $15 or $20, except for special events. Do the Pirates own any public parking?
Thanks for the info Anthony. Isn't there a correlation between what a team spends and attendance? In 2015 and 2016, the Pirates spent more on their players than the Brewers did. The Pirates were in the top half of teams in attendance in 2015 (15th) and in 2016 (18th).
I don’t know, but you would think, especially for a team like the Pirates as any new revenue should flow thru to the bottom line as most expenses are fixed outside of payroll. Maybe, as Pirates fans, we just got conditioned to that based on 2014-2016. Plus, I believe the FO has made comments about spending more when attendance increases. Personally, I don’t think this should be an either or situation. They need to be strategic when they press the gas pedal, and they need to be more opportunistic when it comes to roster building. I’m sure if they did these things, attendance would naturally increase as the fan base would recognize even a little extra effort. They have such a bad pr problem at this point, I’m afraid there is very little they could do to garner more fan support.
Finding the strategic time to spend is the key. Personally, I think they should have tried much harder to lock up Skenes for an extra couple years before they even brought him up (even if unlikely he would sign). The window won't get better when he is gone.
They could still do an extension to replace this deal. Back load it some, or include incentives. If they're interested, this deal doesn't necessarily do anything except buy time to talk.
The phrase was “stretched out.” He did a lot of “opening” for LAD in 2023. I think they’re short on SP depth, but being prepared for bullpen games is one way to address that. Could be what they have in mind.
Looks like he was a lot better with Houston than the yankees last year and for his career has been a pretty decent reliever. Hopefully one of several bullpen moves
Off topic, but Nutting is always on topic, I'm reading that there are 5 large billboards now in downtown Pittsburgh imploring Bob to sell the team! I guess it started in November and Travis made a comment that they "will not be distracted" from their goals....LOL. Fans are going the "embarrassment route" which I also thought was the only way to go. They have a go-fund me campaign and a website of OurTeamNotHis.com. The group is growing and will be at Pirate Fest for 2 days in mid-January. This is our Hot Stove as fans.......nothing much happening otherwise.
Since we are modeling our team after the Marlins (pitching and no offense,)the Garrett news along with what the staff has gone through this past few should serve as a warning
The problem isn’t so much injuries as it is keeping the pipeline open, and then scratching out enough runs to stay competitive. The former is TBD but promising, the latter they haven’t managed to do yet. Hopefully this year they figure out a way to make the offense sufficient for the pitching.
You see other teams come up with a guy out of the blue, but that just never seems to happen here....at least on the hitting side. That's the only way this team has a chance, they need 2 guys to break out.
Just to shed a bit of sunshine on a dark, bitter cold day...
Seattle is also built on pitching and so far, their arms have been healthy.
To me, at least, the Buccos seem to be more in line with the Mariners, then the Fish.
No jinx, no jinx, no jinx...But none of Keller, Skenes, Jones, Bubba to my knowledge have had any arm or shoulder problems in college, minors or the show.
Ashcraft, Barco and some others, yes. But not the Big 4.
Without any offense, these pitching losses are death for a team. Totally unacceptable that Pirates went after a terrible hitter from a team that develops hitting as badly or worse than they do at the deadline last year. If only ... offensive upgrade is crucial!
Going to arbitration with Santana & Oviedo.
Their agents have some gonads....two pitchers injured all season. BC probably tried to stay flat with expiring, would like to see how far apart they are.
Given the Pirates' figure for Oviedo, I can see why he wouldn't agree.
Holderman 1.5.
Oviedo & Santana left.
Would love an Ethan special payroll update after these arb figures to see what we realistically have left to spend
he is live tweeting the payroll figures with the arb announcements.. currently at 78,492,614 (which includes Santana & Oviedo’s arb estimates)
Appreciate this, thanks!
Does that include Ferguson?
yes!
So they should have around $21.5M left if the $100M mark is right.
with every passing day, that mark seems more like $85-90m
This will depend on how you define realistically. If you mean how much other teams with similar market sizes
realistically spend when not in rebuilding mode then at least 30 to 50 million to spend. See for example Brewers and Reds. If you mean how much Nutting is realistically willing to let Cherington spend on payroll then probably around 10 million max.
Brewers draw about 1m more per year in attendance and also generate an additional $20-$25m in annual parking revenues. Combined, that’s nearly $75m more in revenue than the Pirates. The Pirates are undeniably cheap, but their respective financial positions are very different.
Are you factoring for the 48% of local revenue like tickets and parking that clubs have to put in the revenue sharing pot?
No, that is pre-rev share. But take 48% of $75m, and you are probably close to the delta in MLB payrolls.
Forgot to mention, good point on the parking revenue.
I've wondered how much parking revenue PNC's location costs the Pirates. I love PNC, of course, but when I travel to Pittsburgh I either take the bus from a friend's house or park in a downtown garage and then walk when I go to a game, and I'm assuming none of my bus fare or garage cost goes to the Pirates.
As for attendance, the Pirates drew about 800K more fans in 2015 than in 2024, and if they had the Brewers consistent success, I'd guess their attendance figures would be much closer. But will Nutting spend first, or will it take a GM putting together a winner on a relative shoestring first.
It doesn’t really cost the Pirates anything bc they don’t own the lots, the city does. If anything, public transportation makes the games much more accessible and saves fans some extra money.
The last couple years, I have noticed the increase in parking in Milwaukee. Some games they charge between $25 and $50 for their lots. My trips to PNC it is much closer and easier and is usually $15 or $20, except for special events. Do the Pirates own any public parking?
Nope, the city owns all of the parking lots.
Thanks for the info Anthony. Isn't there a correlation between what a team spends and attendance? In 2015 and 2016, the Pirates spent more on their players than the Brewers did. The Pirates were in the top half of teams in attendance in 2015 (15th) and in 2016 (18th).
I don’t know, but you would think, especially for a team like the Pirates as any new revenue should flow thru to the bottom line as most expenses are fixed outside of payroll. Maybe, as Pirates fans, we just got conditioned to that based on 2014-2016. Plus, I believe the FO has made comments about spending more when attendance increases. Personally, I don’t think this should be an either or situation. They need to be strategic when they press the gas pedal, and they need to be more opportunistic when it comes to roster building. I’m sure if they did these things, attendance would naturally increase as the fan base would recognize even a little extra effort. They have such a bad pr problem at this point, I’m afraid there is very little they could do to garner more fan support.
We are on the same page.
Winning usally increases attendance. Attendance increases payroll. Payroll sometimes increases winning.
Finding the strategic time to spend is the key. Personally, I think they should have tried much harder to lock up Skenes for an extra couple years before they even brought him up (even if unlikely he would sign). The window won't get better when he is gone.
Bednar for 5.9.
I liked melkel's idea of being opportunistic and signing him to an extension but no reason to take him at this price
They could still do an extension to replace this deal. Back load it some, or include incentives. If they're interested, this deal doesn't necessarily do anything except buy time to talk.
Bart signed for 1.75.
Pirates signed Caleb Ferguson https://www.fangraphs.com/players/caleb-ferguson/19349/stats?position=P
He’s the one I wanted and for about what I was thinking. I love the pick up. Now one more bullpen arm and OF help!
Nice addition to the pen. Good k rates, not so good bb rates and maybe some positive regression with high babips the last couple of years.
fWAR 2.4. bWAR 0.7. Fangraphs likes him more than Baseball Refeence. Either way, he is 1 tick above a replacement level player for his career.
It would be nice if they could add a borucki on a minor league deal for some lefty depth.
I like it, solid lefty reliever.
Apparently, they're thinking of looking at him as a starter.
The phrase was “stretched out.” He did a lot of “opening” for LAD in 2023. I think they’re short on SP depth, but being prepared for bullpen games is one way to address that. Could be what they have in mind.
This is... interesting. Opening for one of the young guys or oviedo sure i can see that i guess, maybe they are still shopping another starter then?
If he's considered for an opener then maybe they wanna use him to get through tucker or other similarly scary lefties the first time through
Cole Tucker? Scary? 😜
Well played Scott!
Looks like he was a lot better with Houston than the yankees last year and for his career has been a pretty decent reliever. Hopefully one of several bullpen moves
A lefty! Interestingly, no platoon split at all.
Off topic, but Nutting is always on topic, I'm reading that there are 5 large billboards now in downtown Pittsburgh imploring Bob to sell the team! I guess it started in November and Travis made a comment that they "will not be distracted" from their goals....LOL. Fans are going the "embarrassment route" which I also thought was the only way to go. They have a go-fund me campaign and a website of OurTeamNotHis.com. The group is growing and will be at Pirate Fest for 2 days in mid-January. This is our Hot Stove as fans.......nothing much happening otherwise.
Arb deadline is today. Most of the Bucs' cases will probably be agreed on, but the Bednar case will be interesting.
Falter agreed to $2.22M.
I feel like Paul sewald is a target based on his rising fastball tendencies
Pirates love the kind of stuff that Sewald would bring.
I wouldn't mind it. As long as there is a lefty or two that is brought in as well.
Definitely can’t be the only move, but I wouldn’t hate it as one of multiple additions
Since we are modeling our team after the Marlins (pitching and no offense,)the Garrett news along with what the staff has gone through this past few should serve as a warning
The problem isn’t so much injuries as it is keeping the pipeline open, and then scratching out enough runs to stay competitive. The former is TBD but promising, the latter they haven’t managed to do yet. Hopefully this year they figure out a way to make the offense sufficient for the pitching.
Wouldn’t hurt to have a position player go nuclear in the minors and turn into a star. I’m pinning my hopes on Griffin for that one.
Jhonny Severino could be another one to keep an eye on.
Good call!
You see other teams come up with a guy out of the blue, but that just never seems to happen here....at least on the hitting side. That's the only way this team has a chance, they need 2 guys to break out.
We need someone to turn into a Brendan Donovan.
Hopefully Griffin has the 70 hit tool and is crushing dingers in Altoona come August. Dreaming but it would be awesome.
Just to shed a bit of sunshine on a dark, bitter cold day...
Seattle is also built on pitching and so far, their arms have been healthy.
To me, at least, the Buccos seem to be more in line with the Mariners, then the Fish.
No jinx, no jinx, no jinx...But none of Keller, Skenes, Jones, Bubba to my knowledge have had any arm or shoulder problems in college, minors or the show.
Ashcraft, Barco and some others, yes. But not the Big 4.
Shut up shut up shut up! Don't say it out loud! [knocks on wood]
🤐
I think you meant to tell him “Gett Ahhhhttt!”
Without any offense, these pitching losses are death for a team. Totally unacceptable that Pirates went after a terrible hitter from a team that develops hitting as badly or worse than they do at the deadline last year. If only ... offensive upgrade is crucial!
I was thinking it, you were thinking it.