Lets overreact, Ro looks like he belongs in the rotation and if Hanks defense is passable and hes going to mash then that hugely changes how strong our lineup will be. Also, Ashcraft might be second up behind jones in terms of pitchers
Less sure about Roansy; has he shown anything this spring he hasn't in past springs? Remember, BA had him averaging 98 the season prior to his callup (yes, I still do question this).
I like that he's searching for utility in a third pitch. Fastball command is mid and he knows from last year he can't get by throwing sliders half the time. Good to see growth.
Haven’t seen Ashcraft yet so just going by stats, but I have seen Jones and I’m not sure Ashcraft is behind him. Jones’ stuff is, indeed, electric, but it’s less effective than it should be because he’s always behind in the count. Not laloosh wild, quite, but it always seems to be 2-1. If he could get ahead more he’d be a beast.
My attitude about Ro so far is basically relief because he almost HAS to be in the rotation regardless due to the lack of options. He won’t clear waivers and sticking him in middle relief to pitch a couple innings here and there based on game situations isn’t a path forward, imo.
Getting ahead in the count is probably one of the most important abilities to be a successful mlb pitcher. I think it get's lost because so many young pitchers today are more interested in throwing hard at the expense of location and it was good to hear what Skenes said the other day as mentioned by TNBucs. I just don't have any confidence in this dysfunctional coaching staff to stress this to these young pitchers.
Being able to locate pitches and change speeds are way more important than how hard the pitch is thrown but the modern obsession with reaching 95-100 on the gun has the "wow" factor and has taken over in the minds of fans and young pitchers. It's also the main reason so many guys are having TJS early on in their careers and sometimes more than once. A career was over if a guy tore up his elbow before Tommy John came back and pitched after having surgery. Now it's an acceptable risk to take and a guy who doesn't throw hard isn't seen as much of a prospect by many.
There are far, FAR more human beings on earth that can throw 88 than 98.
If it were easier to develop multiple plus secondaries AND plus command then you'd see an explosion of these types. Look at any of the orgs who routinely show an ability to develop pitchers. Are any of them going this route? Do we really think they haven't thought of this idea yet?
Then there is the fact that if a young hard thrower is struggling to get out of an inning the tendency is for them to even throw harder and that's why you shouldn't leave them in for so many pitches like Shelton has a tendency to do. I'm totally amazed Mitch Keller (knock on wood) has survived his time with Shelton and remained healthy.
Good takes wilbur! I think one differences is that ashcraft isnt nearly as built up as jones based on recent seasons so not sure if that might be a deciding factor or not
I don't know. I'm thinking that if Ro, Quinn, Martin, and Marco (or even if Ortiz replaces one of them) are in our rotation, that would be a lot of pitch-to-contact. And my follow-up thought was that there doesn't seem to be a plan in place to have a plus defense if our rotation will be largely relying on converting outs on BIP. Obviously, Hayes and Triolo, if Triolo wins the 2B job, are plus plus, but is there another position that we can say is plus?
Of course the problem is not with Ro, but that our two rotation additions don't seem to be great fits for how the rest of the team is constructed.
Wouldve definitely made sense to prioritize defense a bit more with out rotation’s makeup. The infield will be fine imo, but a plus CF over the badness we have in RF now would go a long way
Fortunately, this is a short-term problem with the pitchers next in line to arrive being anything but pitch-to-contact. (Though I loved what Skenes said the other day about what he loves about pitching is the strategy and not just blowing people away.)
Yeah, I’d agree…with those two, and even just in general.
Guys that have it in them to become really good — actually *getting there* on or ahead of schedule — can add so much to a lineup or a staff compared to what we’ve (unfortunately) been trained to expect with the Bucs. We’re so used to not seeing that happen that there’s a general mindset of ‘if we don’t add X, Y and Z in FA we are doomed once again’.
Lets overreact, Ro looks like he belongs in the rotation and if Hanks defense is passable and hes going to mash then that hugely changes how strong our lineup will be. Also, Ashcraft might be second up behind jones in terms of pitchers
Less sure about Roansy; has he shown anything this spring he hasn't in past springs? Remember, BA had him averaging 98 the season prior to his callup (yes, I still do question this).
I like that he's searching for utility in a third pitch. Fastball command is mid and he knows from last year he can't get by throwing sliders half the time. Good to see growth.
Haven’t seen Ashcraft yet so just going by stats, but I have seen Jones and I’m not sure Ashcraft is behind him. Jones’ stuff is, indeed, electric, but it’s less effective than it should be because he’s always behind in the count. Not laloosh wild, quite, but it always seems to be 2-1. If he could get ahead more he’d be a beast.
My attitude about Ro so far is basically relief because he almost HAS to be in the rotation regardless due to the lack of options. He won’t clear waivers and sticking him in middle relief to pitch a couple innings here and there based on game situations isn’t a path forward, imo.
Getting ahead in the count is probably one of the most important abilities to be a successful mlb pitcher. I think it get's lost because so many young pitchers today are more interested in throwing hard at the expense of location and it was good to hear what Skenes said the other day as mentioned by TNBucs. I just don't have any confidence in this dysfunctional coaching staff to stress this to these young pitchers.
Not just the pitchers. The hitters are constantly falling behind in the count because they take hittable pitches early. They’ve been Hainesed.
Being able to locate pitches and change speeds are way more important than how hard the pitch is thrown but the modern obsession with reaching 95-100 on the gun has the "wow" factor and has taken over in the minds of fans and young pitchers. It's also the main reason so many guys are having TJS early on in their careers and sometimes more than once. A career was over if a guy tore up his elbow before Tommy John came back and pitched after having surgery. Now it's an acceptable risk to take and a guy who doesn't throw hard isn't seen as much of a prospect by many.
The only thing this gets wrong is intent.
There are far, FAR more human beings on earth that can throw 88 than 98.
If it were easier to develop multiple plus secondaries AND plus command then you'd see an explosion of these types. Look at any of the orgs who routinely show an ability to develop pitchers. Are any of them going this route? Do we really think they haven't thought of this idea yet?
The fact you don't speaks to the challenge.
Then there is the fact that if a young hard thrower is struggling to get out of an inning the tendency is for them to even throw harder and that's why you shouldn't leave them in for so many pitches like Shelton has a tendency to do. I'm totally amazed Mitch Keller (knock on wood) has survived his time with Shelton and remained healthy.
Good takes wilbur! I think one differences is that ashcraft isnt nearly as built up as jones based on recent seasons so not sure if that might be a deciding factor or not
Full agree.
Ashcraft would currently be the second hardest throwing starter *in all of baseball* based on his work in short stints.
I'm the President of his fanclub and even I think that seems...well...let's just see what he settles into over 120 innings or so.
The fact that he seems to command it so well has me stoked regardless.
I don't know. I'm thinking that if Ro, Quinn, Martin, and Marco (or even if Ortiz replaces one of them) are in our rotation, that would be a lot of pitch-to-contact. And my follow-up thought was that there doesn't seem to be a plan in place to have a plus defense if our rotation will be largely relying on converting outs on BIP. Obviously, Hayes and Triolo, if Triolo wins the 2B job, are plus plus, but is there another position that we can say is plus?
Of course the problem is not with Ro, but that our two rotation additions don't seem to be great fits for how the rest of the team is constructed.
Wouldve definitely made sense to prioritize defense a bit more with out rotation’s makeup. The infield will be fine imo, but a plus CF over the badness we have in RF now would go a long way
Fortunately, this is a short-term problem with the pitchers next in line to arrive being anything but pitch-to-contact. (Though I loved what Skenes said the other day about what he loves about pitching is the strategy and not just blowing people away.)
My bet is Skenes ends up around a strikeout per inning. Right around average.
Disclaimer is if they get his change to consistently show as plus. I don't think the fastball and slider alone get him past that.
can’t overstate how huge it would be if those 2 can breakout this year
Yeah, I’d agree…with those two, and even just in general.
Guys that have it in them to become really good — actually *getting there* on or ahead of schedule — can add so much to a lineup or a staff compared to what we’ve (unfortunately) been trained to expect with the Bucs. We’re so used to not seeing that happen that there’s a general mindset of ‘if we don’t add X, Y and Z in FA we are doomed once again’.
My whiff rate has gone up dramatically. I'm gonna see if some flowers and a box of chocolates improves the situation.
A box of chocolates always improves any situation, until the ensuing sugar rush and crash