Why not try and swing a trade for Dylan Carlson, honestly? Cards need pitching. I don't know what's wrong with the guy but he looked like a really good young switch hitting CF in '21 and '22 and the Cards haven't exactly been the most functional show on earth since then. A bit of a history taking walks and with some baserunning value, too. He's listed as a guy who played through injury in '23. Shut him down for a month and aim at calling him up mid-August. Might take a minor overpay in division but wouldn't cost much.
Upgrade, for sure, difference maker, unlikely. But if were are giving up Ashcroft and Jebb like someone suggested I will do it in a heartbeat. Ward and Palacios ( no a true platoon since I will give Ward the vast majority of the at bats) will make a solid RF.
Weird to think about this. Ben has never traded for a real major leaguer before. Just guys who were dfa’d or whose teams wanted to dump a little salary, like Choi.
Something like Ashcraft and Brannigan maybe? Cheap. Slightly above league average bat. Bad defense. Crushes lefties and 92 wRC+ against RHP. Could be underperforming a bit because the Angels are even more depressing than the Pirates as an org. Sort of sounds like I'm describing Connor Joe though as I type this. We'd still need a platoon bat for Joe unless he's now 100% platoon at 1B and bench bat?
On paper he is an upgrade over any outfield spot (pretty easy to accomplish) other than Reynolds but he is not a huge difference maker IMO. I wish he could play center because MAT is the easy cut here but who the heck plays center against lefties? I am trying not to be a prospect hugger but would rather not give up Ashcraft in this trade as he is 'near' term starting depth (and hopefully more than just 'depth'). I like the Joe/Tellez combo for now at 1B with the lame rationale that Joe playing less outfield and only against lefties will help get him back on track.
Ugh, well. If it happens probably just Cherington trying to say "see, I did something!" and I'll wish Ward the best here particularly given he'd be here for a few years.
I'd much rather them try and get a Barrosa from Arizona, elite defensive CFer with good on base skills. Should be a lot cheaper both in prospects and payroll.
I could see them being reluctant to go for a guy who hasn't put it together at MLB yet for any stretch given all the AAA to MLB failure this season wrt Barrosa. Not saying they're right to but could be a reason he might not get targeted. Not for failure at MLB ofc since he's only had 10 PAs in the bigs. Just lack of "proven" bat.
I totally get that, it's a risk but I'd love to see an Ashcraft and Sullivan for Barrosa and pick 35 in this draft lol. With both teams getting prospects in positions of need.
If true, big if, I’d imagine there would be a substantial piece going back considering the years of control. Those two could be involved. Unless we are following someone’s suggestion yesterday of taking Anthony Rendon. Lolololol.
Lololol. Love it. That’d be a great occasional segment for some publication to run. Just have a writer model a few ridiculous trades and try to rationalize them.
Yeah it seems a bit redundant, but, and this is big words coming from me: there isn’t much out there so if they do manage to get Ward we should probably cut them a break. Where would they play these guys though? Neither player (him or Joe) grades out well in range. Ward seems to have a cannon though.
I see major regression for the Brewers in the 2nd half. Rotation outside of Peralta is dogshit, multiple hitters overperforming and the pen will be taxed by August. Cards are due for regression as well.
Then all we'd have to do is replace Hayes with a 3B who can hit and field, get a RF platoon bat for Joe a la Jesse Winker a MLB CF and probably one good bullpen arm and we'd have a contender! That's not asking much. Just 2.5 starters and a reliever.
I don’t see Palacios as any kind of medium term answer, but sometimes a guy just gets hot, so go with it. That’s why it’s so dumb to drag along with a -0.8 WAR guy like Olivares. Keep trying guys until somebody gets hot. The costs of making moves with guys like that are nonexistent. The risk lies in keeping them too long.
Fwiw, Dejan has an article today insisting that Nuttin has authorized lots more spending but Cherington won’t do it.
Whatever. Bottom line is, an opportunity exists now and they don’t want it.
The Mets had bullpen problems against the Bucs and immediately dealt for Phil Maton, because, y’know, nobody makes trades now. Maton isn’t exactly exciting, but when you’re playing guys as awful as the Pirates are, “exciting” isn’t required for an upgrade.
Noteworthy because recent events do suggest a level of dysfunction in this front office spilling into the public eye, the dysfunction being discernible for awhile now to anyone watching closely.
It's exhausting. They could cut the crap and infighting theatrics and just try to get better or get honest with the fans and say aloud that they don't think this is the year or whatever but they're bullshit artists first and foremost, Nutting and Cherington both, so they won't.
Again fwiw, there DOES seem to be some tension. Nuttin’s and Cherington’s comments about trades were directly contradictory.
Due to Skenes, the Pirates are getting media attention for the first time in Ben’s reign of error. Their needs and the opportunity they have are so painfully clear that it HAS to have occurred to some of the dim bulbs on Federal St that there’ll be widespread bafflement if they continue to sit on their hands and fall out of the race. So I can imagine some of those dim bulbs want to get their supposed story out.
I think it’d be easier to write it off that way if it wasn’t for the contradictory nature of the reporting. I have no interest in the palace intrigue as such, but I am deeply concerned with what I feel is dysfunction in the organization.
It also claims that the O's offered Jackson Holliday for Jared Jones! And Cherington said no. If that's true he should get fired twice and banned from baseball.
Pirates win 12-2 at Milwaukee behind a strong bulk performance by Quinn Priester and another outing by the Ogres at the Bat Rack, who clubbed 5 bombs. The Pirates are in third place, 8.5 games out of first and 1.5 games out of last. Time to compress these standings a bit and sweep the Brewers. It’s a big series, citizen, so let’s go on and get it.
*
CARROTS ON THE HOUSE!!!! (*not enough carrots to go around edition)
@> A carrot for Josh Palacios, welcome back, cousin!
@> A carrot for B.Rey because damn is that a fine baseball player.
@> A carrot for Rowdy because damn is this guy catching fire. Nice to see him do it to the Brewers in their ear-hole.
@> A carrot for Mike Wazowski for his 2 for 5 night with a bomb and, importantly, no strikeouts.
@> A carrot for Joey Bart for his granny.
@> A carrot for QP (stands for Quality Pitching) for joining the parade of fine arms finally jelling at the big league level. And welcome, welcome, welcome to the Carrot Leader Board, Mighty Quinn!
*
Truly a team effort with not enough credit to go around. Needs to continue today and on through the week. It is exciting to think of what this rotation will become, but if the Ogres report to work at the Bat Rack more often, we’re in the bonus round. I’ll believe the consistency when I see it, ,but - hey - 11 hits and five of them goners? Let’s have that.
___________________________
“I taught I taw a puddy tat! I did! I did tee a puddy tat!!!”
I've never not thought Quinn can be successful if his FB velo is 95 or higher and was only concerned when he seemed to be topping out at 93. So, seeing those velo numbers makes me cautiously optimistic.
Really good to see QP and Ortiz pitching well and holding their velocity. The organization is getting pretty stacked with quality right hand starting pitching. At the majors Skenes, Jones and Keller with QP and Ortiz knocking on the door. Upper minors with Ashcraft, Chandler and Harrington coming up the walk way and aren't far from the door.
Seems like a couple guys like Sullivan and Chen could be good trade pieces for a blocked prospect in other organizations. The other team isn't getting the pirates best but the pirates aren't getting their best either but could be an upgrade for both.
My concern with the Pirates bats waking up is it will cause them to keep Haines next year.
We all know the 85 game sample size of meh offense is much more indicative than the 5 game sample of the 70’s Lumber Company. But I’m definitely here to enjoy this ride while it lasts.
Yeah it's a true catch 22. I want the Pirates to keep hitting well and finally have the competitive offense to compliment their pitching. But I also want to be rid of the burden of Haines who IMO has lead to regression of all their ML bats.
I guess the other way to look at it.. if 'this ride' does last for the rest of the year (absolutely not a prediction), then should they keep him? The organizational wide lack of hitters might not be the major league coaches fault. I certainly hope we have this dilemma (ie. the 'ride' continued).
I imagine it is. His senior season in 2022, he threw 50.1 innings before going down with TJS. His season high is 83.0 IP in 2021 junior season. He's already at 62.0 IP this year.
Which, on that note, there's A LOT of pitchers ready to eclipse previous highs in short order. Carlson Reed is 1 inning from blowing past his 2022 total of 63.1 IP between college and summer ball.
Why not try and swing a trade for Dylan Carlson, honestly? Cards need pitching. I don't know what's wrong with the guy but he looked like a really good young switch hitting CF in '21 and '22 and the Cards haven't exactly been the most functional show on earth since then. A bit of a history taking walks and with some baserunning value, too. He's listed as a guy who played through injury in '23. Shut him down for a month and aim at calling him up mid-August. Might take a minor overpay in division but wouldn't cost much.
Welp
https://x.com/_NoahHiles/status/1811101327432311268
Not so near a deal on Ward.
So two reporters from the same paper with different reports on the same story. 🙈
I'd take Hiles version over Zeise, he has more to prove being on the beat, while Zeise is more opinion based.
I appreciate that, I don’t live in the area so this helps.
Sort of like the offseason when the Pirates "showed interest" in every name on the board and ended up overpaying for waiver-wire junk.
I think that's probably a feature of Cherington agonizing over decisions as was mentioned in an article 2-3 weeks back
Perretto says Chapman and Hayes have for sale signs if there are eager takers: https://pittsburghbaseballnow.com/source-aroldis-chapman-available-could-pirates-trade-kebryan-hayes/
Seeing the comments below. Here are my questions:
Is Ward an upgrade?
Is he a difference maker on his own?
Is he a difference maker in his potential to lengthen the lineup and help someone else see better pitches?
Upgrade, for sure, difference maker, unlikely. But if were are giving up Ashcroft and Jebb like someone suggested I will do it in a heartbeat. Ward and Palacios ( no a true platoon since I will give Ward the vast majority of the at bats) will make a solid RF.
Virtually anybody is an upgrade. Literally.
No doubt. Depending on what they have to give up, the move makes sense.
Man, I don't know if Ward would improve the team or not. I get the appeal from the front office as Ward has high bb% and that's their MO.
Plaz just hit his 11th homerun.
Paul Zeise tweets Bucs are in on Taylor Ward. Fillipponi tweets Zeise is saying the Bucs are close to acquiring Ward.
Weird to think about this. Ben has never traded for a real major leaguer before. Just guys who were dfa’d or whose teams wanted to dump a little salary, like Choi.
Edward Olivares resents that statement.
Pablo Sandoval night terrors are still keeping him awake.
Ward’s 957 ops versus lefties looks nice
Something like Ashcraft and Brannigan maybe? Cheap. Slightly above league average bat. Bad defense. Crushes lefties and 92 wRC+ against RHP. Could be underperforming a bit because the Angels are even more depressing than the Pirates as an org. Sort of sounds like I'm describing Connor Joe though as I type this. We'd still need a platoon bat for Joe unless he's now 100% platoon at 1B and bench bat?
On paper he is an upgrade over any outfield spot (pretty easy to accomplish) other than Reynolds but he is not a huge difference maker IMO. I wish he could play center because MAT is the easy cut here but who the heck plays center against lefties? I am trying not to be a prospect hugger but would rather not give up Ashcraft in this trade as he is 'near' term starting depth (and hopefully more than just 'depth'). I like the Joe/Tellez combo for now at 1B with the lame rationale that Joe playing less outfield and only against lefties will help get him back on track.
This is the perfect description of him, like everything else depends on what’s traded. But even though he’s an upgrade, he is not a difference maker.
Ward has been in almost as big a slump as Joe in his last 30 games, OPS is just over .600 in that time frame.
So can the Pirates get him for less?
I would hope, but who knows.
A few days with Haines should change that.
Ugh, well. If it happens probably just Cherington trying to say "see, I did something!" and I'll wish Ward the best here particularly given he'd be here for a few years.
I'd much rather them try and get a Barrosa from Arizona, elite defensive CFer with good on base skills. Should be a lot cheaper both in prospects and payroll.
I could see them being reluctant to go for a guy who hasn't put it together at MLB yet for any stretch given all the AAA to MLB failure this season wrt Barrosa. Not saying they're right to but could be a reason he might not get targeted. Not for failure at MLB ofc since he's only had 10 PAs in the bigs. Just lack of "proven" bat.
I totally get that, it's a risk but I'd love to see an Ashcraft and Sullivan for Barrosa and pick 35 in this draft lol. With both teams getting prospects in positions of need.
If true, big if, I’d imagine there would be a substantial piece going back considering the years of control. Those two could be involved. Unless we are following someone’s suggestion yesterday of taking Anthony Rendon. Lolololol.
I think it's fun to model whackadoo trades so here's a Rendon one:
Ward
Rendon + $45M
Reid Detmers (on rehab right now but a solid LHSP we could add to Skenes, Keller Jones
Nelson Rada (intriguing CF #1 LA prospect)
for
Ashcraft
Jebb
Hayes
Lololol. Love it. That’d be a great occasional segment for some publication to run. Just have a writer model a few ridiculous trades and try to rationalize them.
I can't say I get that particular player, honestly. I guess two Connor Joes (Ward is a bit better than Joe but similar skillset) are better than one?
Yeah it seems a bit redundant, but, and this is big words coming from me: there isn’t much out there so if they do manage to get Ward we should probably cut them a break. Where would they play these guys though? Neither player (him or Joe) grades out well in range. Ward seems to have a cannon though.
I would guess Joe would remain a platoon partner for Tellez.
Ward would either platoon with JP or be the primary RF.
Suwinski would be the primary CF'er with Taylor as his caddy.
Seems like an awful lot of OF'ers, but I struggle to see a scenario where Taylor is not on the roster, due to him being the only real CF'er.
And the fact that MAT is pretty much the only one with any kind of range.
At the very least, Ward seems like he has some upside after the 137 wRC+ 2022 he had _if_ he fits well with this roster and coaching staff.
Here's an Angels fan's take on a Ward deal from the Pirates https://crashingthepearlygates.com/2024/07/01/what-a-realistic-taylor-ward-trade-might-net/ but BTV has since tweaked their values a bit and Ashcraft is up to a 10.7 now for whatever that's worth. Ashcraft and Jebb alone are pretty close by their estimate.
I see major regression for the Brewers in the 2nd half. Rotation outside of Peralta is dogshit, multiple hitters overperforming and the pen will be taxed by August. Cards are due for regression as well.
Buccos are going to make a run out of this!
The opportunity certainly is there. The rest of the NLC just isn’t that impressive. And no other team has a force as powerful as the Pgh rotation.
Oneil Cruz is going to have a monster second half
He he has shaken off the cobwebs from last years tim eoff and if about to go big time
From your mouth to God's ears I pray you're right!
Then all we'd have to do is replace Hayes with a 3B who can hit and field, get a RF platoon bat for Joe a la Jesse Winker a MLB CF and probably one good bullpen arm and we'd have a contender! That's not asking much. Just 2.5 starters and a reliever.
I think there is some upside with the offense. But, like you said, why wait so long to cut bait with dudes like Olivares?
It was encouraging seeing Bart start game one of a three game series...maybe, just maybe, Bart will start getting the lions share.
Is the Palacios effect real?
I don’t see Palacios as any kind of medium term answer, but sometimes a guy just gets hot, so go with it. That’s why it’s so dumb to drag along with a -0.8 WAR guy like Olivares. Keep trying guys until somebody gets hot. The costs of making moves with guys like that are nonexistent. The risk lies in keeping them too long.
Fwiw, Dejan has an article today insisting that Nuttin has authorized lots more spending but Cherington won’t do it.
Whatever. Bottom line is, an opportunity exists now and they don’t want it.
The Mets had bullpen problems against the Bucs and immediately dealt for Phil Maton, because, y’know, nobody makes trades now. Maton isn’t exactly exciting, but when you’re playing guys as awful as the Pirates are, “exciting” isn’t required for an upgrade.
Noteworthy because recent events do suggest a level of dysfunction in this front office spilling into the public eye, the dysfunction being discernible for awhile now to anyone watching closely.
Geez oh man if only Bob were in a position to do something about it!
"Ben, please spend some of my $"
"No Bob, I'm not spending your $"
In the workplace, they call this insubordination.
Hard to believe that management would go to an employee and say “hey I have extra funds for your budget” and the employee would say: “nah I’m cool.”
More like the owner going to the VP and saying, "Please invest more into this company so the stock rises."
and the VP says no.
That's very hard to believe.
Yeah, I don’t know what to believe. In the end it doesn’t matter.
Honestly did not have this on my Pirate bingo card.
Coonelly-Huntington circled the wagons like no other.
It's like reading the tabloids waiting in line at the grocery store
It's exhausting. They could cut the crap and infighting theatrics and just try to get better or get honest with the fans and say aloud that they don't think this is the year or whatever but they're bullshit artists first and foremost, Nutting and Cherington both, so they won't.
Sure seems like a divide and conquer strategy to divert the fan base to pick sides so they don't have to actually address the situation.
Again fwiw, there DOES seem to be some tension. Nuttin’s and Cherington’s comments about trades were directly contradictory.
Due to Skenes, the Pirates are getting media attention for the first time in Ben’s reign of error. Their needs and the opportunity they have are so painfully clear that it HAS to have occurred to some of the dim bulbs on Federal St that there’ll be widespread bafflement if they continue to sit on their hands and fall out of the race. So I can imagine some of those dim bulbs want to get their supposed story out.
Beautifully said! "Ben's reign of error"
On the contrary, I think this front office is getting a pass of epic proportions because of Skenes.
Maybe I'm wrong, but hasn't Dejan been making stuff up about the Pirates for decades? Didn't he claim NH tried to get him fired?
People are likewise questioning Perrotto’s more credible (IMO) reporting. Who knows what to believe.
Or maybe the anonymous source is a bullshitter and a disgruntled employee? Either way, it's silly drama and I have zero interest in any of it.
I think it’d be easier to write it off that way if it wasn’t for the contradictory nature of the reporting. I have no interest in the palace intrigue as such, but I am deeply concerned with what I feel is dysfunction in the organization.
I love palace intrigue. As long as it’s someone else’s palace.
Too bad it isn’t the Brewers or Reds.
It also claims that the O's offered Jackson Holliday for Jared Jones! And Cherington said no. If that's true he should get fired twice and banned from baseball.
If true, I’d bet there were other players in the offer.
For sure. Cruz and Jones don't even get you Holliday imo.
If you actually believe that you also believe in the Easter Bunny.
I don't believe it but if we ever get corroborating sources, Cherington should be immediately shitcanned.
I heard Rowdy is going to be an AS replacement...just waiting for the corroborating sources.
Do you always have to be a c word or?
that'll get you tossed on this board and every Major League stadium, lol
corroborating?
Pen should be ok when Borucki and Bednar come back.
I hope they saved some runs for tonight and tomorrow
Tuesday, July 9
44 down. 37 to go.
*
Pirates win 12-2 at Milwaukee behind a strong bulk performance by Quinn Priester and another outing by the Ogres at the Bat Rack, who clubbed 5 bombs. The Pirates are in third place, 8.5 games out of first and 1.5 games out of last. Time to compress these standings a bit and sweep the Brewers. It’s a big series, citizen, so let’s go on and get it.
*
CARROTS ON THE HOUSE!!!! (*not enough carrots to go around edition)
@> A carrot for Josh Palacios, welcome back, cousin!
@> A carrot for B.Rey because damn is that a fine baseball player.
@> A carrot for Rowdy because damn is this guy catching fire. Nice to see him do it to the Brewers in their ear-hole.
@> A carrot for Mike Wazowski for his 2 for 5 night with a bomb and, importantly, no strikeouts.
@> A carrot for Joey Bart for his granny.
@> A carrot for QP (stands for Quality Pitching) for joining the parade of fine arms finally jelling at the big league level. And welcome, welcome, welcome to the Carrot Leader Board, Mighty Quinn!
*
Truly a team effort with not enough credit to go around. Needs to continue today and on through the week. It is exciting to think of what this rotation will become, but if the Ogres report to work at the Bat Rack more often, we’re in the bonus round. I’ll believe the consistency when I see it, ,but - hey - 11 hits and five of them goners? Let’s have that.
___________________________
“I taught I taw a puddy tat! I did! I did tee a puddy tat!!!”
-Wabbit
I've never not thought Quinn can be successful if his FB velo is 95 or higher and was only concerned when he seemed to be topping out at 93. So, seeing those velo numbers makes me cautiously optimistic.
Really good to see QP and Ortiz pitching well and holding their velocity. The organization is getting pretty stacked with quality right hand starting pitching. At the majors Skenes, Jones and Keller with QP and Ortiz knocking on the door. Upper minors with Ashcraft, Chandler and Harrington coming up the walk way and aren't far from the door.
Seems like a couple guys like Sullivan and Chen could be good trade pieces for a blocked prospect in other organizations. The other team isn't getting the pirates best but the pirates aren't getting their best either but could be an upgrade for both.
My concern with the Pirates bats waking up is it will cause them to keep Haines next year.
We all know the 85 game sample size of meh offense is much more indicative than the 5 game sample of the 70’s Lumber Company. But I’m definitely here to enjoy this ride while it lasts.
Ugh!
Yeah it's a true catch 22. I want the Pirates to keep hitting well and finally have the competitive offense to compliment their pitching. But I also want to be rid of the burden of Haines who IMO has lead to regression of all their ML bats.
I guess the other way to look at it.. if 'this ride' does last for the rest of the year (absolutely not a prediction), then should they keep him? The organizational wide lack of hitters might not be the major league coaches fault. I certainly hope we have this dilemma (ie. the 'ride' continued).
Hoping the Barco move is load management
I imagine it is. His senior season in 2022, he threw 50.1 innings before going down with TJS. His season high is 83.0 IP in 2021 junior season. He's already at 62.0 IP this year.
Which, on that note, there's A LOT of pitchers ready to eclipse previous highs in short order. Carlson Reed is 1 inning from blowing past his 2022 total of 63.1 IP between college and summer ball.
I was just going to post this.
Great minds and all. 😎