Not sure how i missed this article nola but great stuff here, thank you for compiling these stuff+, etc for all these names. Honestly would be content with any of these guys as i think they all have a reasonable chance to be something decent. Of course, would love Erod + 1-2 of these names but probably more realistic is that this level will be the high end of our shopping spree
Excellent presentation, and the Pirates definitely have the dollars available to sign a few guys off this list. However, instead of spending dollars on questionable returns, why not just spend less and use the guys we supposedly prepped last year for just a future situation such as this. We have Keller as the ACE, and my No. 2/3 to start the season would be Jared Jones who had 15 Starts at AAA, 82 IP, 4.72 ERA after throwing 44 innings at AA with a 2.23 ERA. The other 2/3 would be Quinn Priester. He struggled, but started 8 games/50 IP for the Pirates in 2023 after 20 Starts, 9-4, 4.00 ERA, 108 IP at AAA.
I would not do anything regarding signing FA SP's until we have solid scouting of where BRU, Max Kranick, Luis Ortiz, and Roansy Contreras are in their off-season prep. BRU could be back by June, and Kranick threw 15-20 innings at AAA to finish 2023 - I'm thinking he could be ready to be the No. 4 SP. Ortiz is tough to watch at times, but he was 5-5, 4.78 for the Pirates in 2023 with 15 Starts and 3 relief appearances for a total of 86.2 IP. He would be No. 5.
Others to consider: Andre Jackson was a spot SP/RP who was 1-3, 4.33 ERA in 43.2 IP for the Pirates last year. Another is LHSP Bailey Falter, 2-2, 5.58 in 7 starts/3 relief outings with the Pirates last year. A couple of other considerations would be Kyle Nicolas, Aaron Shortridge (not sure of 40), and Cody Bolton.
Really hope BC doesn't slow-play signings this winter. That gets so frustrating picking thru the crumbs in mid to late January for bargains. Show a sense of urgency, cause there is urgency with only one SP. This is year 5 for the regime. Be aggressive for once. Go out and get your guy or two by Dec 10......get er done Ben.
In my best Ben Stiller/David Starsky voice “ Come on, do it. do it. If he does it now he could be back late next spring to very early next season. Mor time to show that he is healthy and worth a long term deal sooner in his career.
Glad it's not me facing the decision. You get TJ, you're gone nearly a year and a half for sure, and it's not unheard of to find other remedies. You don't get it and end up needing it, you could miss two years.
One plus here is the timing. Oviedo should miss just the one season. Getting it in spring training is the worst. Can mean two full seasons.
My thoughts are the timing as you said. No knowing his medicals and what the alternatives that he has been presented with, if it were me and the alternatives were given a prognosis of only 50% or no better of being successful, I would want to not risk an entire 2nd season by waiting and then finding the alternatives did not work. Like you glad it is not my decision to have to make.
If they can bring VV in on a minor league deal they can be looking at VV Brubaker Skenes Jones Wolf and maybe Sullivan as depth options post May. That's really nice but it might prevent them from adding as much as they should to start the year.
Is Maeda VV and a trade realistic? Say Blackburn. Keller Maeda Blackburn Contreras Ortiz Priester Jackson Falter for 2 months.
To compete you need multiple backup plans to go along with frontline guys. Cherington knows this. Case history of the hazards of not obtaining quality arms to go with what may be available internally lies with the Bucs themselves. I do not think that the will shy away from looking to add at least 2 quality starters. Best case scenarios they add quality arms and those that you mentioned develop and push the rotation. If all are healthy at the deadline you can use the surplus to add a piece that they really need heading to the post season.
The more I think about it the more I think they're gonna look to just bridge April and May. Get them to June when Bru Skenes and Jones are real options to contribute. I think they'll trade for a guy like a Blackburn type and def sign a VV type (Turnbull?) I also could see them add a Paxton or Miley maybe am Erik Fedde type from the KBO. That's my expectations.
Oviedo opened up more opportunities for guys like Ro Ortiz Falter Priester
This is exactly how I would armchair GM this situation; it’s always easy to move pitching in season assuming they’re not injured. I will caveat this by saying that they really need at least two frontline guys, not traditional TOR but bonafide #3’s with some upside potential on their best days. Then, we can sprinkle in some depth options as a backup plan. The shitty part about this situation is that FA pitching is costly, probably the most costly position to add thru FA. I just hope they don’t blow their entire budget here bc they really need to acquire a 1B and/or CF/RF that can help them score more runs.
I think people will get caught up on the $ of the signings and not the potential. Velaquez was better than Hill last year. He was our #2 when healthy but he was the CHEAP signing.
Also pitchers WANT to sign in Pittsburgh due to the ballpark being pitcher friendly and their available rotation spots.
I think VV could low-key be one of the best options. If only because it seemed he was trending up prior to going down. But, again, it was less than 40 IP. Definitely a solid low-cost option that could provide big dividends.
Hope they sign at least one lefty and they get 2 if not 3 starters. I think it would be smart to go with one year contracts with a second year option, unless they can get a decent 3 year deal with one of them that doesn't have injuries in their background.
Not sure how i missed this article nola but great stuff here, thank you for compiling these stuff+, etc for all these names. Honestly would be content with any of these guys as i think they all have a reasonable chance to be something decent. Of course, would love Erod + 1-2 of these names but probably more realistic is that this level will be the high end of our shopping spree
Excellent presentation, and the Pirates definitely have the dollars available to sign a few guys off this list. However, instead of spending dollars on questionable returns, why not just spend less and use the guys we supposedly prepped last year for just a future situation such as this. We have Keller as the ACE, and my No. 2/3 to start the season would be Jared Jones who had 15 Starts at AAA, 82 IP, 4.72 ERA after throwing 44 innings at AA with a 2.23 ERA. The other 2/3 would be Quinn Priester. He struggled, but started 8 games/50 IP for the Pirates in 2023 after 20 Starts, 9-4, 4.00 ERA, 108 IP at AAA.
I would not do anything regarding signing FA SP's until we have solid scouting of where BRU, Max Kranick, Luis Ortiz, and Roansy Contreras are in their off-season prep. BRU could be back by June, and Kranick threw 15-20 innings at AAA to finish 2023 - I'm thinking he could be ready to be the No. 4 SP. Ortiz is tough to watch at times, but he was 5-5, 4.78 for the Pirates in 2023 with 15 Starts and 3 relief appearances for a total of 86.2 IP. He would be No. 5.
Others to consider: Andre Jackson was a spot SP/RP who was 1-3, 4.33 ERA in 43.2 IP for the Pirates last year. Another is LHSP Bailey Falter, 2-2, 5.58 in 7 starts/3 relief outings with the Pirates last year. A couple of other considerations would be Kyle Nicolas, Aaron Shortridge (not sure of 40), and Cody Bolton.
Cody Bolton is not a pirate
Really hope BC doesn't slow-play signings this winter. That gets so frustrating picking thru the crumbs in mid to late January for bargains. Show a sense of urgency, cause there is urgency with only one SP. This is year 5 for the regime. Be aggressive for once. Go out and get your guy or two by Dec 10......get er done Ben.
Looks like Oviedo is now deciding, to TJ or not to TJ?
In my best Ben Stiller/David Starsky voice “ Come on, do it. do it. If he does it now he could be back late next spring to very early next season. Mor time to show that he is healthy and worth a long term deal sooner in his career.
Glad it's not me facing the decision. You get TJ, you're gone nearly a year and a half for sure, and it's not unheard of to find other remedies. You don't get it and end up needing it, you could miss two years.
One plus here is the timing. Oviedo should miss just the one season. Getting it in spring training is the worst. Can mean two full seasons.
agree, rather do it now than have the Burrows timing. “Discomfort” throughout spring, a couple mediocre starts THEN TJ.
Not sure there are other remedies in general, don't know Oviedo's specifics. Maybe 1 out of 100 successfully delay TJ, I can only think of one.
It's not really that hard a decision.
My thoughts are the timing as you said. No knowing his medicals and what the alternatives that he has been presented with, if it were me and the alternatives were given a prognosis of only 50% or no better of being successful, I would want to not risk an entire 2nd season by waiting and then finding the alternatives did not work. Like you glad it is not my decision to have to make.
Paxton, VV, Frankie Montas, Erik Fedde and you've got some coverage, imo.
If they can bring VV in on a minor league deal they can be looking at VV Brubaker Skenes Jones Wolf and maybe Sullivan as depth options post May. That's really nice but it might prevent them from adding as much as they should to start the year.
Is Maeda VV and a trade realistic? Say Blackburn. Keller Maeda Blackburn Contreras Ortiz Priester Jackson Falter for 2 months.
To compete you need multiple backup plans to go along with frontline guys. Cherington knows this. Case history of the hazards of not obtaining quality arms to go with what may be available internally lies with the Bucs themselves. I do not think that the will shy away from looking to add at least 2 quality starters. Best case scenarios they add quality arms and those that you mentioned develop and push the rotation. If all are healthy at the deadline you can use the surplus to add a piece that they really need heading to the post season.
The more I think about it the more I think they're gonna look to just bridge April and May. Get them to June when Bru Skenes and Jones are real options to contribute. I think they'll trade for a guy like a Blackburn type and def sign a VV type (Turnbull?) I also could see them add a Paxton or Miley maybe am Erik Fedde type from the KBO. That's my expectations.
Oviedo opened up more opportunities for guys like Ro Ortiz Falter Priester
This is exactly how I would armchair GM this situation; it’s always easy to move pitching in season assuming they’re not injured. I will caveat this by saying that they really need at least two frontline guys, not traditional TOR but bonafide #3’s with some upside potential on their best days. Then, we can sprinkle in some depth options as a backup plan. The shitty part about this situation is that FA pitching is costly, probably the most costly position to add thru FA. I just hope they don’t blow their entire budget here bc they really need to acquire a 1B and/or CF/RF that can help them score more runs.
Cherington may know this, but he doesn’t always act like he knows it.
I think people will get caught up on the $ of the signings and not the potential. Velaquez was better than Hill last year. He was our #2 when healthy but he was the CHEAP signing.
Also pitchers WANT to sign in Pittsburgh due to the ballpark being pitcher friendly and their available rotation spots.
I think VV could low-key be one of the best options. If only because it seemed he was trending up prior to going down. But, again, it was less than 40 IP. Definitely a solid low-cost option that could provide big dividends.
I thought he was out until mid year?
That is true. I had thought it came out later it wasn't as bad as initially thought. Says about mid-May
Hope they sign at least one lefty and they get 2 if not 3 starters. I think it would be smart to go with one year contracts with a second year option, unless they can get a decent 3 year deal with one of them that doesn't have injuries in their background.