We can’t get a guy who has demonstrated he can consistently improve MLB hitters? The team is not serious about winning. Sorry, can’t get on board with this hire and don’t see why there should be confidence in him.
I have to believe the answer is yes as there have been MLB hitting coaches for a very long time. I’d be OK with this if there was some kind of track record from BC’s recent regime of identifying up and coming coaches. I don’t see it.
That’s a tricky question though. There’s the question of talent versus coaching ability. Luck plays into the matter somewhat. So is a particular hitting coach good at developing talent, or lucky because he walked into a situation with great talent already?
Brent Strom is a good example: he had a great run with the Astros. The DBacks hire him and he gets fired because their pitching didn’t progress. So was he lucky with the Astros? Unlucky with the Diamondbacks? Or somewhere in between?
We can also ask the question of how much these guys really matter? They probably matter somewhat, but is a great hitting coach turning Jared Triolo into a 20 home run guy? Probably not.
Sorry that I don’t sound too clear here, but I think the question of who is good and who is not is a tough one to answer objectively, even for those who are in the industry.
The last 10 years he has been with the Astro's and D-Backs, two solid teams with WS appearances and big name pitching. He will be a solid add to assist Marin in working with one of the best pitching groups in MLB. The Pirates jumped from 27th to 13th in 2024 and possibly Top 10/Top 5 in 2025 - I hope!
Could be a good combination. Marin is heavily oriented toward tracking and such. I'd guess Strom is more oriented toward the old-fashioned stuff, like how to work hitters.
Nola posts an excellent interview of Hague in which, when confronted with the challenge of hitting the impossibly nasty stuff pitchers throw, identifies forcing hitters to be "committed in certain areas and eliminating certain areas".
Literally taking strikes and focusing on individual zones of higher probability.
And yinz are all "hell yeah brother fuck andy haines".
Hey I commented on an earlier post. It looks like some comments are getting cut off midstream (I’ve noticed it with mine and others). Is this an app issue?
This approach makes sense before strike two. Unfortunately many players seem to take this approach when facing the prospects of striking out, too.
Also, if a batter is only focusing on swinging when a pitch is in a certain quadrant of the strike zone, then they better not be taking a middle middle strike on the 1st pitch.
I, too, find it exceptionally easy to identify a 95mph heater on the black from a plus slider that would've ended up a foot off the plate while sitting on the couch drinking beers.
All hitters need to know and understand is that their longevity is in direct proportion to whether they can hit or not, and the system being taught is always secondary. Good Hitting Coaches do not force every player to do the same things, but if they are struggling and in need of help, that's where a hitting coach makes his/her bones. Can he offer assistance and do so in a manner that will inspire confidence? Some can; some cannot, it's simply a matter of trust between the hitter and the coach. And both have a lot of skin in the game.
I learned some new lingo to describe fastballs: high-vert, up-shoot, turbo downhill!
Most interesting were his comments on game-planning based on the pitcher, even adjusting swing paths for high-vert vs. turbo downhill. Of course I knew that hitters would view video of who they were facing that day, but this seemed a bit more extensive than I might have guessed.
He sounds like he knows what he is doing, and there seems to be more emphasis on adjusting mechanics to match the scouting reports than we heard from any of Haines' public comments. He is also apparently very popular with the players, which cannot be a bad thing.
However, I can't help but wonder; if Hague is so good, why did the Blue Jays suck at hitting this year? I know that he was only the assistant hitting coach there, but if the problem was the hitting coach, and not the assistant, why did the Blue Jays not promote Hague?
Agree with Nola here, they didn’t suck, but they definitely haven’t played well enough to match their talent level for a few years now. Not sure we can pin that on an assistant hitting coach though.
Vlad Jr damn near had a career year. IKF had the best wRC+ in his career. Justin Turner hit well; Horwitz hit well as a rookie. Some dudes just got old...Toronto has an older roster, average age of 29. As a team they had a 101wRC+.
The good players hit, the not so good hitters didn't.
Hitting coach, no matter who it is, will not turn the Pirates into the '27 Yankees.
Yes. It was more about expectations, which (in my honest opinion) were too high at the start. Their roster really is not as strong was the media was making it out to be.
So, I am willing to remain open-minded on this hire, even though my confidence is approaching zero that the people running this organization understand anything about hitting a baseball. I am just happy that Haines is gone.
Granted he was assistant, and it's hard to say how much organizationally wide their influence is from top down, but their minor league numbers also are very promising. So, I'm all about it
Well... he was their minor-league developmental man moving up from A-ball through AAA for the past 4 years, so we will see. They certainly could have done worse.
I think it's more the opposite, with this quote as an example (in response to being asked about the Jays' struggles):
“I think they’re learning about themselves, even on the fly. They’re finding ways to gear swing paths, to think about things like different zones to eliminate to get more barrels on the ball."
If anything, he might be accused of getting players to overthink things, which was a complaint about Haines. But I like the philosophy, and if nothing else we seem to have a more personable coach than is typical, which might help in multiple ways.
I hope he's good at recognizing the small mechanical adjustments that can enhance a hitters abilities.
An example from this past season is Triolo, for most of the year he used a high hand ready (still) load and struggled. In August he started using a lower hand position causing a slight recoil load and started hitting much better. Hopefully in spring training they tinker with his hand position to find his optimal contact/power stance.
We can’t get a guy who has demonstrated he can consistently improve MLB hitters? The team is not serious about winning. Sorry, can’t get on board with this hire and don’t see why there should be confidence in him.
Honest question, does such a guy exist?
I have to believe the answer is yes as there have been MLB hitting coaches for a very long time. I’d be OK with this if there was some kind of track record from BC’s recent regime of identifying up and coming coaches. I don’t see it.
That’s a tricky question though. There’s the question of talent versus coaching ability. Luck plays into the matter somewhat. So is a particular hitting coach good at developing talent, or lucky because he walked into a situation with great talent already?
Brent Strom is a good example: he had a great run with the Astros. The DBacks hire him and he gets fired because their pitching didn’t progress. So was he lucky with the Astros? Unlucky with the Diamondbacks? Or somewhere in between?
We can also ask the question of how much these guys really matter? They probably matter somewhat, but is a great hitting coach turning Jared Triolo into a 20 home run guy? Probably not.
Sorry that I don’t sound too clear here, but I think the question of who is good and who is not is a tough one to answer objectively, even for those who are in the industry.
The Hit Collector is back!
Brent Strom hired as asst pitching coach. Age 76, wealth of experience, why come to the Burgh?
The Skenes effect! Once in a lifetime opportunity.
I like it.
Agree. I'm already having doubts about Hague though.......long winter ahead.
The last 10 years he has been with the Astro's and D-Backs, two solid teams with WS appearances and big name pitching. He will be a solid add to assist Marin in working with one of the best pitching groups in MLB. The Pirates jumped from 27th to 13th in 2024 and possibly Top 10/Top 5 in 2025 - I hope!
Could be a good combination. Marin is heavily oriented toward tracking and such. I'd guess Strom is more oriented toward the old-fashioned stuff, like how to work hitters.
Strom stated he did not have the best relationship with the Dbacks pitchers.
Could be the generational divide of 50 years. He probably gets that, which is why he wants an assistant role only.
https://www.wtae.com/article/wont-stop-bob-sell-team-billboards-enact-pittsburgh/62888161
Don't live there anymore but just saw this article. Nothing to do with the new hire.
Nola posts an excellent interview of Hague in which, when confronted with the challenge of hitting the impossibly nasty stuff pitchers throw, identifies forcing hitters to be "committed in certain areas and eliminating certain areas".
Literally taking strikes and focusing on individual zones of higher probability.
And yinz are all "hell yeah brother fuck andy haines".
Welcome to the dark side
Hey I commented on an earlier post. It looks like some comments are getting cut off midstream (I’ve noticed it with mine and others). Is this an app issue?
Uhhh, might be? I'm generally on my laptop when I'm on the site, so I haven't noticed
This approach makes sense before strike two. Unfortunately many players seem to take this approach when facing the prospects of striking out, too.
Also, if a batter is only focusing on swinging when a pitch is in a certain quadrant of the strike zone, then they better not be taking a middle middle strike on the 1st pitch.
It's more disgusting taking on a strike 3 middle middle. I know the game has changed but I like a more contact guarded approach with 2 strikes.
Right on!
I, too, find it exceptionally easy to identify a 95mph heater on the black from a plus slider that would've ended up a foot off the plate while sitting on the couch drinking beers.
Put us in, coach!
NMR said it I think…two for me, one for we.
This
I don't love it, but I don't dislike it either. Probably a decent hire, best of wishes to Hague.
The Hit Collector!!!!!
Let the undoing of Andy Haines teachings begin.
It won't happen overnight.
All hitters need to know and understand is that their longevity is in direct proportion to whether they can hit or not, and the system being taught is always secondary. Good Hitting Coaches do not force every player to do the same things, but if they are struggling and in need of help, that's where a hitting coach makes his/her bones. Can he offer assistance and do so in a manner that will inspire confidence? Some can; some cannot, it's simply a matter of trust between the hitter and the coach. And both have a lot of skin in the game.
Bullpen implodes? Fire the bullpen coach
Team can’t hit? Hire the hit collector
All of this adds up nicely
Team implodes and we kept DS…..🤬
Awesome article with Matt Hague on Fangraphs from back in July
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/torontos-matt-hague-talks-hitting/
I learned some new lingo to describe fastballs: high-vert, up-shoot, turbo downhill!
Most interesting were his comments on game-planning based on the pitcher, even adjusting swing paths for high-vert vs. turbo downhill. Of course I knew that hitters would view video of who they were facing that day, but this seemed a bit more extensive than I might have guessed.
He sounds like he knows what he is doing, and there seems to be more emphasis on adjusting mechanics to match the scouting reports than we heard from any of Haines' public comments. He is also apparently very popular with the players, which cannot be a bad thing.
However, I can't help but wonder; if Hague is so good, why did the Blue Jays suck at hitting this year? I know that he was only the assistant hitting coach there, but if the problem was the hitting coach, and not the assistant, why did the Blue Jays not promote Hague?
Agree with Nola here, they didn’t suck, but they definitely haven’t played well enough to match their talent level for a few years now. Not sure we can pin that on an assistant hitting coach though.
Put 'em in the AL Central and they win the Division.
Especially from THAT division.
I was looking through rankings, and they didn't really suck. Might've been a case of under hitting expectations?
Vlad Jr damn near had a career year. IKF had the best wRC+ in his career. Justin Turner hit well; Horwitz hit well as a rookie. Some dudes just got old...Toronto has an older roster, average age of 29. As a team they had a 101wRC+.
The good players hit, the not so good hitters didn't.
Hitting coach, no matter who it is, will not turn the Pirates into the '27 Yankees.
George Springer looks like a definitional example of the aging curve, damn.
Forgot about the IKF angle. For the pirates front office, that's 7.5 million reasons to hire Hague.
Probably a lot of emphasis put on Biggio and Bo having down years in people's perception
Biggio has never been very good though. Outside of the rabbit ball years of 2019 and 2020.
Biggio just doesn’t have the pop. Once pitchers figured out they had nothing to fear throwing him strikes he was never the same.
Yes. It was more about expectations, which (in my honest opinion) were too high at the start. Their roster really is not as strong was the media was making it out to be.
So, I am willing to remain open-minded on this hire, even though my confidence is approaching zero that the people running this organization understand anything about hitting a baseball. I am just happy that Haines is gone.
Granted he was assistant, and it's hard to say how much organizationally wide their influence is from top down, but their minor league numbers also are very promising. So, I'm all about it
Well... he was their minor-league developmental man moving up from A-ball through AAA for the past 4 years, so we will see. They certainly could have done worse.
Thanks for posting this! Gives some context to understand the decision.
What I hear him saying is: “See the ball. Hit the ball.” : )
I think it's more the opposite, with this quote as an example (in response to being asked about the Jays' struggles):
“I think they’re learning about themselves, even on the fly. They’re finding ways to gear swing paths, to think about things like different zones to eliminate to get more barrels on the ball."
If anything, he might be accused of getting players to overthink things, which was a complaint about Haines. But I like the philosophy, and if nothing else we seem to have a more personable coach than is typical, which might help in multiple ways.
I was just joking on “see the ball, hit the ball.” Probably didn’t phrase it well enough!
I hope he's good at recognizing the small mechanical adjustments that can enhance a hitters abilities.
An example from this past season is Triolo, for most of the year he used a high hand ready (still) load and struggled. In August he started using a lower hand position causing a slight recoil load and started hitting much better. Hopefully in spring training they tinker with his hand position to find his optimal contact/power stance.
He was a “swing specialist” for a little while with the Blue Jays, so I’d imagine he’s expert on all those little nuances.
The hit collector!
We couldn't have made this up, could we? The hit collector comes back as our hitting coach. If for no other reason than this, I like the move!
Hope we can upgrade his nickname to the Hit Whisperer